The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

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The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-28 14:05:37  
Well yes I agree they are great damage and stats for a new player, just mentioning their purpose as per SE is just another lore/theme based character progression time sink, based around magical stats.
 Asura.Gerkin
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By Asura.Gerkin 2019-01-13 11:29:03  
Question! Has anyone tried or been able to make jinpu work on apex mobs for faster kills or is that just a Sam thing?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-13 12:42:47  
Ninja doesn't need to stoop to such pathetically low weapon skill, when Blade Chi/To/Teki effectively do the same thing. Might need to dig up the past 20+ pages to find the discussions, but it's the NIN equal to Tachi: Jinpu for Ninja.

Anyways, if the true goal is "faster kills" for apex, I think the consistency Shun > Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun > (Futae) Raiton is much better. You should be able to kill any Apex monster with this chain, without the need for frailty/malaise from a geo to make Blade hybrids effective.
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By SimonSes 2019-01-13 16:09:12  
Wait i dont get it Buukki. Are you telling me that Nin can do 5 step Radiance (also not every nin has aeonic btw :P) without COR? Or it is with COR? But damn, is nin ws so low damage that you can actually pull off 5 step Radiance on Apex and mob is still alive for magic burst?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-13 17:40:31  
Couple of things.

First, I never mentioned Radiance once in my post. Shun > Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun without an aeonic just makes double light, so any ninja can do this. I know because I actually did this before I got mine. You also do not need a corsair (more on this later), but your trust choices do matter. I use Sylvie (who gives indi haste) and Koru for Haste 2, so that generally caps me out.

Secondly, NIN ws without buffs (i.e. when solo vs apex) is extremely weak, even those 3 Shuns won't break over 15k each. It's the incremental built up SC damage that really packs on the damage. You probably won't kill an Apex bat in one chain if you do not have Aeonic, and sometimes you won't even with it. Again, I've done it for over half of my CP points on Ninja, since I soloed them during my off days.

Its Gravitation > Fragmentation > Light > Light (2), which generally not be enough to kill an Apex Bat. Futae (or not) Nuke Raiton will kill the Bat, and you should be able to chain fairly easily if you can maintain haste. Especially when Sange is up.

Back to Corsair: You use Qultada, who will give you Fighter's roll if you don't put up Experience Points icon. This, with the right gear, should bridge the gap between having enough haste + MA to multi-step light. Even if you can't hit that last Shun, you can still burst off of it if you're prepared. But you can scrap that last MB if you don't care to gear for that, and just replace Qultada with Shantotto II, who will pump out 5-8k magic bursts in between about 3-5 times per chain. That extra ~40k damage is about the same as your MB Futae nuke, so you can do it either way.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-01-13 18:20:13  
SimonSes said: »
also not every nin has aeonic btw

Re: hybrid WS (Chi/Teki/To, or Jinpu), you won't get very good results on those without Aeonic anyway. Aeonic TP Bonus is a huge part of what makes hybrids useful, so it's likely that using standard physical WS will be better performance when not using Heishi.

Shun > Hi > Metsu or Kamu > Shun is another good one for a 4-step.
 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2019-01-13 18:38:44  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Shun > Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun without an aeonic just makes double light, so any ninja can do this. I know because I actually did this before I got mine.
What are you talking about? Shun without Aeonic Aftermath is Fusion/Impaction only. How could you make double Light using a WS with no Light property?

Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Shun > Hi > Metsu or Kamu > Shun is another good one for a 4-step.
It still makes single Light only, but it can't be helped without Aeonic.

Unfortunately, katana are very limited if we want to multistep and finish with double Light/Darkness: we're dependant of Aeonic to make double Light and we have to use Retsu to make Distortion in order to finish with double Darkness (Ku > Retsu > Ten/Hi > Metsu/Hi). But hey, we're using lolKamu to make Light, right?
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By SimonSes 2019-01-14 01:27:57  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
First, I never mentioned Radiance once in my post. Shun > Ten > Kamu > Shun > Shun without an aeonic just makes double light, (...) I've done it for over half of my CP points on Ninja, since I soloed them during my off days.

Thats interesting. You have been doing something thats technically impossible for such a long time :) you muat have similar memmory to that which my wife has. She also tells ne, that she told me to do some things i was suppose to do before she back, but... she never did :P
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-01-14 09:09:44  
Then I DID have my aeonic back then. Okay, good catch there guys. I could have sworn I was making double light back then but that's been debunked. Brain freeze there, thanks for the catch
 Asura.Kageniai
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By Asura.Kageniai 2019-01-19 06:37:59  
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the Shun set here seems to focus on literally nothing but multi-hit. Being a 5 hit, a triple attack proc won't make up for nearly as much as we're lacking in attack here no? NONE of the main 5 slots have attack cept the body, all have ACC and multi-hit. Unless I'm missing something, the 35 DEX on legs wouldn't win vs say a 10 DEX (or STR) 30 ATT/ACC 3% TA Herc legs would it? I don't know all the math required here but it just seems... off to me. If it's truly BiS I'll leave it be, I just feel we're leaning a little heavy into the dex mod and multi hit. Especially since the TP bonus from this is literally adding more attack in such high quantities. Or maybe this is assuming attack capped thru buffs? Like I said idk how all the math here works for this but I'd love some insight.

Edit:
I'd also like to know the WS hierarchy in the best situations just because. Like if everything was buffed as much as possible, what does the most damage and what does the least. I know NIN isn't a powerhouse but I'm curious anyways.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-01-19 07:04:34  
all the sets disregard accuracy and attack and assume you’re capped.
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2019-01-21 11:04:28  
You will probably get the most raw damage out of ten w/ heishi.
Havent seen any w/ r15 metsu numbers yet );
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By tentakelspeer 2019-01-21 11:48:21  
I'm gonna R15 Nagi (2/6 stacks farmed, not gonna buy those for Nagi), because why not. So what would be the best possible set for Nagi?

I'm currently working with this set (augs could be better):
 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2019-01-21 16:47:44  
Frankly, Kamu is so bad I wouldn't waste my time making a set for it.

If you really want to make one, I suggest you to focus on multihits instead of WSD. As Kamu's fTP is only 1.0 (for all hits), it's not wise to make only the first hit stronger. However every extra attack that procs will get you an extra 1.0 fTP (and you get 2 attacks minimum - and 2 chances of proccing multihits - because dual-wield). Also, don't use Moonshade because Kamu's damage doesn't scale with TP.

Hmmm, looking this way, maybe it isn't a waste of time making a set for Kamu after all, especially with a R15 Nagi.
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 Ragnarok.Haxetc
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By Ragnarok.Haxetc 2019-01-21 17:09:59  
Bahamut.Alexcennah said: »
Frankly, Kamu is so bad I wouldn't waste my time making a set for it.
He's making Nagi. I don't think he minds wasting time on stuff that's bad :^)
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 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2019-01-21 18:11:21  
Quote: »
Bahamut.Alexcennah said: »
Frankly, Kamu is so bad I wouldn't waste my time making a set for it.
He's making Nagi. I don't think he minds wasting time on stuff that's bad :^)
And I'm starting to think it's not really bad at all! I was browsing the JP wiki and I found some interesting info about Kamu that has been ignored by the Western side of FF11 until now: Kamu's Attack modifier has been changed since those WS adjustments that happened back in 2014 (SE update notes here and here confirm this) to
JP Wiki said:
"it's estimated that its (Kamu's) modifiers are (now) Attack +125% and (enemy's) Defense -25%".

So, we're talking now about a WS that, with R15 Nagi, has the equivalent of 1.495 fTP per hit, 2 hits minimum (because DW), 2 chances of multihit proccing, STR 60% INT 60% WSC modifiers, Attack + 125% (or *2.25) and ignores 25% of enemies' Defense. What that means for Nagi on very low buff situations?
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 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-01-21 18:32:47  
iirc, dual wield swings can't multi attack during weapon skills.

So you're looking at like, a 3.25 swing average. 5.2325ish fTP with Nagi. Can occasionally spike to 7.475.
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 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2019-01-21 19:27:59  
Asura.Veikur said: »
iirc, dual wield swings can't multi attack during weapon skills.
It depends. Multihits can proc twice on a WS, however only in natural hits (that is, not on other multihit procs). DW gives one extra natural hit per round so I assume that it can proc a MH in a single-hit WS. It's easy to test it though, but boring.

Siren.Kyte said: »
Shun exists, so the low ratio niche is already filled for most practical situations.
I'm talking about Nagi especifically. And Kamu and Shun work together for Light skillchains.

Siren.Kyte said: »
I actually can't find the line you quoted, but it looks to me like they're saying it has a 3.0 attack modifier. That's potent, but the fTP is still pretty damn low.
It's a footnote: "補正値は攻+125%、防御-25%ではないかと推測されている。" Yeah, the fTP is pretty low, but assuming R15 Nagi, it has WSD +49.5% (equivalent to fTP 1.495 per hit, as Kamu's fTP is 1.0). And Kamu should be geared for multihits. DW gives one extra hit (as I assume), making it "2.99 fTP" and adding an extra chance of MH proccing. Assuming 2 DA or 1 TA procs, that's already "5.98 fTP". And Nagi is a Mythic, AM3 will help on this.

EDIT: omg Kyte, you deleted your post!
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-01-21 19:40:40  
I decided I wanted to see how well it spreadsheeted before commenting. It does not appear to do well outside of situations that I don't think are very practical.
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-01-21 19:47:02  
This is based on my experience back in the 75 days but I'm pretty sure it's one DA or TA proc per weapon swing, so DW allows for two chances at DA or TA per WS.
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 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-01-21 19:53:17  
Ah, I hadn't considered that.

4.14 swings on average, then. 6.1893 fTP, rare spikes up to 11.96
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 Bahamut.Alexcennah
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By Bahamut.Alexcennah 2019-01-21 20:02:15  
A pity, but that was already expected.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-01-21 20:18:10  
Alexcennah said:
It's a footnote: "補正値は攻+125%、防御-25%ではないかと推測されている。"

Derp, ya I see that now- that does work itself out to the 3.0 attack modifier mentioned further up before considering other debuffs.


I think if I happened to have one sitting in my inventory, I probably would utilize it (and Kamu) for the Dullahan Ambuscade. That's probably about it.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-01-21 21:09:06  
Ragnarok.Haxetc said: »
Bahamut.Alexcennah said: »
Frankly, Kamu is so bad I wouldn't waste my time making a set for it.
He's making Nagi. I don't think he minds wasting time on stuff that's bad :^)

And all joking aside, supposing you are gonna use Nagi for whatever the reason may be, you will still want to use Kamu somewhat regularly if only to put up Mythic AM. Doesn’t hurt to be prepared for SC purposes either.
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By tentakelspeer 2019-01-22 11:35:53  
Thanks for the answer and the interesting discussion coming with it. So multihit it is, I guess I was looking in the wrong places!

Tausend Dank!
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By mhomho 2019-01-22 13:39:05  
All this Kamu talk got me like: Kamu is bomb-u
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 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2019-01-22 13:40:39  
Welp time to make nagi
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2019-01-22 13:41:17  
Who gives a ***about Kamu dps when you get a free raise?!?!?!
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By mhomho 2019-01-22 14:28:03  
Listen~ ya just plop it in your lua file so it procs every time!
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