The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Malignance is great, but its lack of Def and MDB in particular make it a liability in some fights.

Namely sortie basement bosses, Bumba, some other V25s.

In those fights you need a couple pieces that are heavier on the def/MDB side. Previously that was only Nyame and you take the hit on DPS because you need it to survive.

The new gear gives you an option that is very heavy on Def/MDB and still great dps wise on top of that.

When are you using nin in any fight like that is a different question.

Not sure what you mean. Nyame has exactly the same MDB as Malignance..

And Revelation set has stunning 1MDB more..

That is one of the two things I mentioned. The other you ignored.

Because other things I mentioned myself and they are correct, why would I mention them, when I wanted to question incorrect stuff.

You suggested Nyame has higher MDB, Revelation is very heavy on MDB and Malignance lacks MDB. So it's 1MDB that makes set lacks MDB to being very heavy on MDB. Interesting.

Most modern moves are magical in nature, so defense as a stat is technically "worth less" than magic defense or magic evasion collectively. Besides melee hits, probably the most significant defensive stats you can rely on are magical ones (doesn't mean DEF is worthless). If moves are physical in nature where defense matters, at least for Ninja, utsusemi provides protection so it's less pertinent than for other jobs.

Here are the links, compare and judge.

Revelation also has a lot more hp, and stats. Whether that matters to you is a personal choice I guess.

Just wait for lolDDwhm with Sworn and Ampulla having over 800meva, 50%DT, 34%ta and 100%DA in a tp set :)

It's not a matter of subjective opinion. Revelation is weak against debuffs and mediocre against resistsable magic damage. It's good against pure physical damage. Meaning you will need to hot swap it to high meva pieces during many fights. Malignance can be worn full time without issue.
Malignance is better hybrid tp piece. Revelation is better tp pieces.

Just like with plenty of other sets, you likely will not be 5/5ing Revelation/Perfection/Hope armor. In most situations you can afford to wear one, maybe even two, "less defensive" pieces while still surviving. When you have 700+ Magic Evasion, losing 40-50 and maybe 1-2 MDB in one slot isn't going to make or break your run. I'll be making pieces of this set for lolDDbrd anyways, and will probably look at jamming one or two pieces into my Ninja TP set in 10 years when I have them at R30. As Simon said, it's a horizontal progression, not a vertical one (which is why we all love this game, right?).

I love high HP pieces, but the reality is you can't make much use of it on Ninja (or much of it is lost) due to frequent gear swapping. This is a problem in general due to the gane being heavy with gear swapping, but it hurts Ninja even more because of constantly recasting Utsusemi. Unless you specifically put high HP pieces in your pre and midcast sets (which limits your FC for recast or SIRD), any HP in your melee sets are wasted to a degree, or at least diminished imo, unless you have that same amount of more across all other sets, casting, WS, etc.

I miss the days when casting between enemy attacks was an actual skillset.

Still have to do this during Crystal Paradise, and it's the most exciting part of playing Ninja IMHO

Hello all, I just wanted to share my experience with Dokoku V. I've seen a lot of people say it has some bad numbers, I'm not sure what other people are gearsets their using, but I'll share mine and give everyone the numbers I'm seeing. I am ML50, R30 gear, and I got the best ring from TVR, Ephramad's Ring so I am pushing Zesho Meppo to its max potential. I made the sets before I was introduced to the simulator and I have to say the simulator is amazing, very accurate. Anyways, as you all know some of these prime weapons are mostly toys and Ninja isn't recommended to Odyssey Sheol Gaol, sortie 9 boss (obviously) so my experience with the weapon is only on apex enemies, limbus, ambuscade, and any other content that's mostly just fun. The numbers I'm seeing from having +8cor, idris geo is usually around 74k base weaponskill. when I double or triple proc it'll turn into a 82k weaponskills on apex enemies. I haven't tested it with a brd since I got it stage 5. I can put in that information if requested. I've tried Savage blade a few times and while savage blade CAN be higher consistently ,78-82k for me, which is 6k higher. Some people are forgetting the triple damage, added acc, lower delay and stp10. That being said, savage blade can sometimes be the better option and reach higher damage if you have enough buffs. Here are my gearsets
ItemSet 402234

ItemSet 402235

To me the most disappointing part of it is sure it's only about even with savage blade at the moment and between the other benefits its probably generally better than naegling for now but the stat mods are so bad. 25 dex and agi vs savage blade 50 str and mnd so as we get more stats savage blade can pull ahead just like it did to blade: ten which used to be much more comprable to savage.

This isn’t a ninja problem, it can also happen when wielding laphria, helheim, rdm prime options, spalarisos, Earp, pinaka, and gae buide. Naegling savage blade just hits hard. On the bright side it’s fusion so it makes lv3 skillchains off the brd and corsair savage blades.

Not following. Outside of resistance, Gae Buide curb stomps naegling. Laphria and helhime do too if you have hate and retaliation up (naegling isnt even in the conversation for drk).

SE sbould really just remove all jobs from that POS tryhard Kane *** weapon aside from cor and brd or, delete from the game.

There is absolutely no way I'm grinding 8.5m gallimaufry to be "only about even with savage blade". I have had the max set for Zesho for a long time and could tell at stage 4 the weapon was not going to be as strong as I hoped it would be, which I feel is another shameful Ninja slight. It was okay in Sortie not using Savage for WS Wall, but it wasn't better, since most fights are short anyways, white damage ia mostly irrelevant. It did fine like soloing a/c objective. However, to get those numbers mentioned above, you need REALLY high effective TP. Kunim offhand is significantly weaker than just Hitaki when spamming Zesho meppo, but that's just the power of TP bonus. You'll need a couple extra seconds worth of TPing to get those numbers.

I've joined both Limbus and Sortie PUGs as Ninja and at least in one event someone explicitly said said "Buukki can you just use Savage blade?" (lol) and in the other I specifically switched to savage blade because the damage was simply better. Being able to SC off of savage is definitely a plus, but it's also heavily dependent on timing and not something you can bank on. For example, it occasionally occurs in Limbus but with everyone constantly switching to the same mob, it's out of your control.

When I'm solo without buffs, Dokoku is exceptionally weaker than just Heishi 5-stepping or hybrids, so it's not even a use case for that. It's easier for a simple 3-step MB though. This is coming from someone who loves Ninja to death and has everything for it, besides ml50.

I can't find any situation where I'd want to bring Ninja and this weapon that would encourage me to stage 5 it. I'm sure if I made the weapon to 5 I'd use it more, but from what I've seen, unless I'm killing apex trash (and I can 99k chi/to those with trust buffs, literally), it isn't making me play Ninja anymore than I already do, which is rarely. I hoped different but it's really just what it is.

I'm also on the fence about Spalirisos for the same reasons. I know it's going to be disappointingly weaker than Savage blade, and that takes away a lot of the shine of prime weapons like I have said before. Which sucks because I wish these 1 hangers didn't have Naegling to compete with, it discourages people from putting effort towards stage 5.

Euvedant that *IS* a Ninja problem imho. Not exclusively a NIN one but a NIN problem nonetheless.
Even if S5 prime absolutely and unquestionably trumped Naegling (and alas not even that is the case) I would still personally find it problematic that a generic "many jobs" weapon like Naegling absolutely stomps anything else NIN-spefific. And the difference is big, and it only got bigger through the years with gear creep.

At this point the only situation where NIN can still manage very good WS output without Naegling is with Aeonic when you can exploit Hybrids which, let's face it, you can't really use in a plethora of content atm.

So yeah, this IS a NIN problem imho, and SE should solve it with Job/WS adjustments, not by empowering S5 prime alone (which in itself, I wouldn't mind at all if they ALSO did that, would be due if you ask me)

I don’t have the polearm so I can’t confirm it, but I do have a naegling/k club Drg. How does the polearm compare to that if you’re not making skillchans?

Kclub DRG with Naegling also requires high effective TP. I have one too, but ever since making stage 4 polearm, I only ever sub warrior. This gives DRG access to fencer, stringer Savage blades, Diarmuids, and judgment for skeletons/blunt damage. Personally, I can absolutely feel the difference in power with GaeBuide4. On 135 Limbus, I can 99k certain Limbus mobs with Diarmuid (flying mobs, Angon etc). I haven't hit 99k Savage blade vs hounds (have a +25% slashing weakness) under similar conditions. I can 2-shot mobs in Limbus with Diarmuid SC, don't always get that with two Savage blades because there's no Skillchain damage in between. A good bit of my WS in ambuscade are 99k with GaeBuide4, but Savage is consistently very strong (sometimes stronger). That's merely the power of WSD traits. However, ever since getting polearm, I don't even miss Naegling. That's the feeling I was hoping I would get with Dokoku, and it's not the same. Obviously different jobs, but man I wish 1h primes were more tailored to the specific jobs needs, or had much better mods to make them the undisputed best. But I can't even say that, the dagger is phenomenal for a 1h.

well, outside of limbus, there's nothing higher than capped damage and its very possible for a zesho meppo to hit 85k with aria of passion, and 95-99k with soulvoice. I also found I can increase my damage with alabaster mantle+hoxne earring R8 by 1,800. If you have Innin+yain:ichi, thats a total of -35~45 enmity down no risk of dying to wave 3 enemies if you have a crappy tank, which was mostly the reason I considered playing nin. its a good weapon in my opinion for those who enjoy playing nin

I wouldn't have a negative thing to say about Dokoku 4/5 if Naegling wasn't in the picture...

Maybe im underestimating how strong WSC is but dagger seems like an outlier in its scaling compared to the other 1 handers modest bumps at similar WSC(don't buy imperators 70/70 dex/mnd) though unless im mistaken even for that weapon its really only shining for thf/dnc while brd/rdm get more out of naegling

You're not mistaken; dagger's numbers are lackluster on rdm. Imperator's numbers are considerably better than ruthless, but still behind naegling

Can you compare to R15 Heishi with same buffs doing Blade: Ten? You say "the simulator is amazing, very accurate", and I pretty consistently get the sim giving a slight edge to Heishi/Ten over S5 Dokoku/Zesho.

If self SCing, that's arguably an advantage to Dokoku (spamming Ten = no SCs). But I don't really see the point in the massive grind of a S5 Prime just to get what is, in best case scenarios for Dokoku, roughly a sidegrade to Aeonic. And if hybrids work, Aeonic simply demolishes it.

I want to be polite here, but TBH I'm extremely skeptical of anyone who is claiming the Prime katana is "very close to" prime GK and Polearm, like you did in the WAR thread. I have friends with St4 GK and Polearm, both of which are amazing weapons that crap all over my Heishi/Ten damage (which seems pretty similar to the physical damage potential of Dokoku/Zesho). So I'd like to see what you think makes Dokoku hang with the primes that get universal praise as best in class DPS weapons. I really don't see it.

At least Spalirisos has the unique pet level+, which even works in offhand. That's an undisputed BiS niche for Prime axe, doing Aymur/Spal as the ultimate pair of BST weapons from a pet perspective. YMMV on how often pet-focus is worth it on BST, but I see some value there.

And to be fair, BST suffers considerably more than NIN when trying to use Naegling due to E rank Sword skill. That's a 73 Sword skill deficit when comparing to NIN's C rank, pretty substantial on anything of consequence. I've struggled a bit with that low acc on some attempts to run Naegling BST, including fights like Bumba.

In comparison, Dokoku is basically an fairly close alternative to Heishi/Ten or Naegling/Savage, with similar physical damage (even a bit worse) but arguably better SC properties. Personal call on whether that's worth the galli grind to you. For me, I can't justify it over picking something for a different job.

You get an innate +50~ acc with tandem dont you? Should pad the gap a bit there

Fair enough, yeah that's true. Acc/Macc+50 from Tandem Strike V (lv90) when fighting the same mob as your pet.

Maybe my bigger struggles have come if a Generous Arthur got killed or something, but I've felt the acc gap a bit on some BST Naegling use. Not that I'm generally bringing BST to anything mainly because of the damage potential from the master - usually always going to be due to the additional utility from pets, whether that's Ooze Def-/HP-, TP Drainkiss, etc.

Parsing is kind of hard to compare because of others players engaging time, weaponsets, Nyame gear, enemy resistance. But I notice the 2handers miss a lot of weaponskills. I saw a GK Sam miss mumei 2-3 times on a limbus enemy, he had to do 5 mumeis to kill it lol