Achievement Suggestion Form

I'm just fine with you stating your opinion and I'm simply stating my opinion about your opinion. I'm fine with you saying you don't want it, but your reason for it(about people getting lucky) was what I disagreed with.

That really wasn't my argument i guess badly worded, my actual reason for not wanting as a rank item read further up was just to avoid useless clutter rankings.

The ranking doesn't need to be perfect. I just think that the fact having 20 jobs at 99 puts you near the top of the rankings for your server is a bit silly.

Achievement *** will always be a thing, but at the very least it'd be nice to see some people with effort put into their characters. I know there's a fair amount of people who own a mythic, maybe a few relics/empies, but they don't have all jobs 99 because they don't care about achievements and won't use the jobs anytime soon. It would be nice to see more of those people in the top 100, and less of the guys who have all jobs 99 and 1 empy.

I'll probably attempt to *** achievements either way because I find it entertaining, but there are a bunch of people on my server who are, imo, not properly ranked for what they own, on boths sides of that.

On a side note, merits need to be changed to give achievements based on how many merits have been upgraded, not how many limit points you've spent. Someone who 5/5s Weaponskills will have more points than someone who fills out the category but does not 5/5 anything.

Why should they get more points if they dont care about em to begin with?

So you're suggesting that we only rank achievement *** and nobody else? That's pretty much what the current system is, minus a few people. If we're changing it at all, we should make it at least make a little sense.

To me at least, it doesn't make sense that someone who has jobs leveled over someone else is ranked so much higher.
Does it seem fair to you that someone who levels 2 jobs to 99 gains about as many points as you would making a mythic?
I don't think we'll ever have a good balance of effort = points, but we can at least tackle the biggest issue, which is exp being valued too high.

I still think Mythics are worth at least 3x their current points in effort as well, but I'd be content with nerfing exp achievements.

I'll say what he meant to say: Why should they get more points for making a bad decision alongside putting in less effort?

You wouldn't say you'd be content with nerfing exp for jobs if you had them all at lvl 99. And yah Im one of those 20 99s 1 emp weapon.

I would. I plan on leveling them all to 99 just for the points. I already have an 80 weapon I'll probably never use just for points. I still don't think this makes rankings worth anything right now.


I honestly have no idea what you're trying to argue.

There is really no reason to have non-5/5 WS. If something has convinced you otherwise, you are likely a poor player.

As it's been mentioned, there's a lot that could be touched up on. Empyreans cost the same as relics in their final stages and each has its own level of difficulty in the earlier stages, Mythics require a significantly higher gil/time investment than anything else, certain crafts are much simpler than others. It's easier to keep intact a system that isn't entirely contrived. Whether you like it or not, it does "make sense" that spending more time on merits would yield more points.

That aside, it's 5000 points.

I think it should be how many limit points you've spent, not upgrades. Going from level 4->5 on weaponskill merits is 30 merit points iirc, much more than any other upgrade in the game. I agree that EXP achievement points need modifying, but saying that somebody who puts merits into Aggressive Aim (lol) just to have 'spread' will get more points than somebody who caps a WS doesn't make any sense.
Unless I'm misunderstanding this statement?

I can see the arguments for changing the value of xp, but honestly it doesnt matter. If player A with multiple r/e/m is somehow lower rank than player B with xp capped then all player has to do is go cap their xp. Player A is honestly avoiding xp if not capped, but has multiple r/e/m. Since we all agree it is simple enough to cap there isnt much reason to change it imho. The only thing gained by changing the xp value is to extend the lead that a person with r/e/m have. And what does it really matter if a player is ahead by 1 point or a million. They still win.

Keeping it the same however does give some incentive to new and returning players. They get to see points go up and even rank amongst their pier group go up. They will not however somehow get to top 200 server rank or top 3000 overall rank by simply by having max xp. This seams to be the main argument for changing.

The problem with setting relative values is that they are relative. No one makes the same gil/hr and no one takes the same amount of time to farm items needed to complete r/e/m. Add to that the wide range or time/effort difference in making different weapons and the price variance across servers.

If you want to talk about handicaps though, players who play on ps2/xbox cannot get their r/e/m upgraded or in some cases shown in their profile nor abyssite/atma due to not having gw plugin.

With the recent update showing the achievement points and exactly how they are calculated, the playing field is leveled. If a player is concerned with rank they can simply start doing achievements. If player A chooses not to do the work that player B does, no matter how simple, then player B will have a higher rank. It is a fair system in that respect.

@op I honestly use achievement system as a guide to help me see what I have yet to complete in the game. Having atma/abyssite/vw added were nice. Possibly having spells for all jobs would be fun for me. Not sure how others feel. Also skill levels for weapons/magic, but Im not sure if the system would be able to track that info.

Thanks for your continued work on a game you no longer play. I salute you!

This is not a personal attack. I don't know you. I'm sure you are a nice guy or girl. But if you have 20 level 99 jobs and one emp you HAVE NOT put as much effort into your character as someone who has made a single mythic even if they have only one level 99 job. However, in the current formula your ranking indicates you have. That is the anomaly that needs to be cleaned up. Rankings should indicate how much work someone has put into their character whether they frequent these boards or care about ranking. Leveling all jobs from 30 to 99 can be done in a week. That is not worthy of a top 100 ranking but under the current system that is what it gives. Let's fix that.

HNM claims from 04~now should give achievment points

I say since there are SOOO many people wanting to get points for everything. Why not just get rid of the number system altogether.
Its just causing a lot of people to get mad over the little things.

I know you have been working hard Scragg, but it would probably be alot easier on you if this whole numbering/rank list were gone.

Should have been more specific, I had no idea you were talking about merit WSs.

And although that's currently true, 1/5 Merit WSs will be acceptable whenever they do the update to them that was mentioned.

Obviously 5/5 should be done for jobs you play often, but some people play more than 3 that have top tier merit WSs.

Regardless, I see no reason to punish people for merit decisions. This can also be said about other merit categories, merit WSs are just the biggest point difference.

Those people with capped categories technically spent more time on their merits and it represented in the system accordingly..

You can still judge them on their poor decision making in neglecting how to properly merit a job despite their slight point increase.

First off, it's simply unfair to give different players a CAP on their achievement points based on DECISIONS.
Someone who merit 4/5 No Foot Rise will have a lower achievement point cap than someone who 5/5s Closed Position and Fan Dance.
This difference is largely more noticeable with Merit WSs, and not 5/5ing those will become more common in the coming patch.

Please also explain to me how you can "properly" merit 20 jobs with a cap of 15 weapon skill merits. I'm dying to know.

If 5/5ing counts for extra, it should track any removed merits and add those in too. Because, you know, it's not like a lot of us haven't thrown out 100m exp.

This is also true. I'd honestly rather have Merits removed from achievements, but if they must stay, it should stay in a way that everyone has the same cap on points.

OH GOD NO THE UNFAIRNESS THAT IS OCCURRING MY RANKING IS IN JEOPARDY.

If you are playing the game at the cost of your effectiveness to maximize your XIAH ranking, you are making the wrong decision. Knowing that you aren't should be good enough.

And you can't, but that SE's problem that needs accounting for, as people have been discussing (read: yelling at them about) for months. As it stands, it's more sensible to stick to a few jobs or work with options that don't necessitate merit WS.

I...don't think anyone said they were?
I'm pretty sure this discussion was about improving the ranking system. I'm pretty sure you're suggesting that we keep things in that are preventing the ranking system from being effective.

I still have no idea what you're trying to argue.

Crafts, and especially missions need to be valued higher. If xp is reduced in value it is still fair across the board whether you have all jobs at 99 or not. Everyone still gets the same credit per xp point. Just doesn't make sense for someone who has 20 level 99 jobs with zero crafts, and very little in the way of missions completed to be ranked ahead of players who put time into playing the entire game. At least if someone went around farming level 80 Empy's to pad their ranking they put the time, and effort into all the magian trials vs just standing around in an xp alliance regardless of if they paid for it or key whored.

Not maxing out categories is less of a time investment and yields less points. That is my only point.

The rest is essentially me baffled why you feel it needs to be changed. I can make the smart decision to not waste my time and resources on a Rhongomiant, but someone who does has still technically one-upped me on an aspect of character progression. If there were a huge difference, I could see where you're coming from, but this is not a factor that is particularly problematic.

From your standpoint, someone who, for example, has 3,000,0000 exp put into their merits should be in equal standing as someone who spent less than half that (which could happen in the Merit WS category). It makes far less sense that way than it does the way it is, to be perfectly honest.

That said, EXP is horribly overvalued in general, which is a problem of its own accord.

Just consider intelligence the soft cap on merit-point achievements? You're really not missing out of anything (unless for some reason you're trying to hit max achievement points) considering that most people will be making the same decisions. :s And if they aren't now, they probably will eventually.

I'm starting to get your point more, but now it just feels like having achievement points for merits is just a bad idea in general.

Both ways don't seem fair in some fashion. I just like my way better because exp is worthless and already constantly wasted, and I want to see everyone's cap be the same.

I believe that the Achievement System is a very important aspect of this site, and I'd like to give my opinion on why I think it should stay.



I have never been a fan of the system myself, in fact I removed myself from ranking many years ago because I don't believe that having fun in the game means completing every aspect of it. I play the game to have fun, and to enjoy it, not to make it a job where I grind myself to boredom so I can move up in the rankings.

That however is just me.

I don't expect others to feel the same way, and I'm actually glad that we have this system in place. Let's talk about other games for a moment here. Many people enjoy having an Achievement System in place because it not only extends the games longevity, but it also provides players with the motivation to do more than simply completing the game. Many games have secrets hidden within, and many players love to discover what these secrets are, and to complete them for themselves to get more out of their game.

While we have quests, missions, and events that further our gameplay in FFXI, we also have achievements that take place on this site. These are of course unofficial, but still a valid system that players can use if they wish. This system however is very outdated, and needs adjusting so it is accurate for today's FFXI standards. This is why we are having discussion, so we can have a general idea of what everyone wants out of the system for when the time comes when Scragg updates it.

The system has never been a representation of how good of a player you are, but how much you have completed in the game. Some players use the Achievement System to gain motivation, and to set personal goals on what to do next. By completing your goal you earn points and (possibly) move up in ranking, and some players have fun doing it. Having friendly competition between friends, linkshell members, your server, or every player is not a bad thing, and shouldn't be looked down on because of it.

So, I believe the system should stay, but more importantly be updated so it is more accurate. I do not take the system seriously, but I do think the balance between R / M / E Weapons, Character Development, Crafts and Synergy, Quests and Missions, and other Miscellaneous achievements is very important. If these categories aren't balanced properly then you can gain an unfair advantage by completing a certain category faster to earn more points. However, if another player wanted to move up in rank there is nothing stopping them from doing the same, so really the balance isn't all that important.

We all need to stop looking at the rank of a player assuming that if they have a high rank they must be an amazing player. It is quite possible that they are in fact a good player, but their number shouldn't define them. Rank only defines how much you have completed in the game, and that's all.

So I don't see the reason to rain on others hard work just because you don't agree with the system. Many players use it to keep their interest in playing setting personal goals, while others use it to compete against others so they keep interest in the game. Whatever the reason a player may have, setting personal goals is a huge motivator and has kept many players going.

I couldn't have said this any better myself honestly... Almost as if the words were taken right from my train of thought and personal view on it.