Achievement Suggestion Form

I haven't read the whole thread but I think an achievement for quest completion would very cool though I'm not sure if that data could be picked up via guildwork. There's hundreds of quests in the game so I think a running total of xxx/xxxx quest completion with a static multiplier would be very fun and give motivation for more people to experience them.

I used my 1h of effort = 100 pts formula and the 1H = 1 millions gils average and i found those results for Relics, mythic, empy ( i have taken in account ALL the task you need to do to level up your weapon : money funding, quests, NM kills, trials etc...)


RELIC 75 : 15 000 pts
RELIC 80 : 15 600 pts
RELIC 85 : 16 300 pts
RELIC 90 : 16 700 pts
RELIC 95 : 17 000 pts
RELIC 99 : 22 000 pts
RELIC 99 glow : 297 000 pts

MYTHIC 75 : 52 200 pts
MYTHIC 80 : 53 200 pts
MYTHIC 85 : 53 600 pts
MYTHIC 90 : 55 600 pts
MYTHIC 95 : 55 900 pts
MYTHIC 99 : 61 900 pts
MYTHIC 99 glow : 361 900 pts

EMPYREAN 80 :4500 pts
EMPYREAN 85 : 6500 pts
EMPYREAN 90 : 9500 pts
EMPYREAN 95 : 24 500 pts
EMPYREAN 99 : 33 500 pts
EMPYREAN 99 glow : 483 500 pts

Of course this is average value, certain weapon can be easier than other.

How many hours to level up a job from 1 to 99 ?
How many hours to level up fishing from 1 to 110 ?
How many hours and gils to level up goldsmithing from 1 to 110 ?
How many hours to finish san doria rank 1 to 10 missions ?

we can try to find, so we can etablish how many points you get.

ps : dont forget the first job 99 should give more achievement points since you have genkai 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 to do

Not that it matters, but I dunno how you got those glow values. Afterglow weapons are absurd - they take the 99 trial x50. (250 marrows/3000 rifts/150 scoria) so on your scale they would be like:

Relic 99+: 297000
Mythic 99+: 361900
Empyrean 99+: 483500

Something like that. Just reminded me how incredibly dumb the glow trials are.

indeed i did a mistake i will correct it, thank you.


agree !! dumb !

Based on Thania's numbers and keeping all other numbers the same e/r/m together would account for more than 98% of achievement points in the game. Lets be generous and say that somehow exp/atma/abyssite/crafting were increased based on the hours/gil model. This would still have e/r/m be 90% of the achievements in the game. That is not a representation of actual achievement. It is a measure of how rich you are not how much of the game you have completed. Not to mention that a person will not actually spend 90% of their time in FFXI collecting and upgrading e/r/m. Can anyone honestly say that 52 in game items represent more than 90% of the in game content?

The current system values e/r/m as 75% of achievement, which I think is already skewed, but clearly e/r/m are large achievements. The system's limitations do not allow for tracking of total character development. The only thing for character development currently are level and merits. If we were able to track spells, skills, quests, AF, key items and titles (I may be missing some things) and gave those things a point value. At that point we would have a more proportionate measure of character development. Until then all we have is xp. (I honestly dont know if any of those things is even able to be tracked fairly.)

I support giving some extra points to upgrading e/r/m weapons, but not to the proportions discussed. Keeping the overall distribution of points in line with the pie charts Kalilla posted on page 2 makes sense to me. Especially if some of the things I mentioned could be lumped in with xp to the 'character development' section so that it wasnt strictly xp.

Isn't that reasonable, though?

If someone completes 100% of the R/M/Es, the system predicts they would have spent >90% of their time building R/M/E weapons. Why shouldn't they get credit for that?

Or, a better question would be:
How can a system directly based on hours of effort be biased?

If I use your numbers for completion of e/r/m the total hours would be 666.16 days. If a person started the game today and they made it a goal of completing 100% of achievements, they may have closer to a 90% of time spent on e/r/m. Realistically though they would do other things including spend time developing their chars in other non measured ways. I can only use my play time as an example, but I have just over 600 days of play (admittedly some of that is afk). If I took an additional 660+ days to complete the rest of the achievements it would be closer to 50% of my game play. So the current spread of ~75% for e/r/m is closer to reality imo.

What I am proposing is that instead of having xp as the only measure of 'character development' that there be other factors added. The % of total achievements that character development would remain about the same, but 'character development' would include much more than just burning a job to 99 and getting 7k+ achievement points for it.

Every system of ranking is biased. Players with more money or better gear can complete tasks faster than those the dont. It doesnt matter if you base a system off hours, money, number of tasks or anything else. There is however a standard approach to achievements systems in general.

Take the xbox ffxi achievement systems. e/r/m are not even listed and things like pure white feather are 1/6 of leveling a job (to75). Or take other achievement systems, where completing a task, no matter how arduous, is given the same weight as one that the newest player can complete. In most achievement systems its about the number of tasks not the difficulty or cost (in $ or time) that it takes. Think about SE own pseudo achievement system (titles). You get 1 title for talking to your mog the first time, but you also get 1 title for killing AV or PW (which used to be impossible). Most achievement systems in games are based heavily or solely on number of tasks completed and slightly or none at all on difficulty of completion of task.

Again Im fine with having a 75% split on 52 things in the game, but increasing their relative weight to 95%+ should just scrap the system and just catalog e/r/m. Why honestly bother giving anything else points at all?

Of course when i proposed to increse R M E point value based on Hour/gil formula i would like everything in the game to be tracked with the same formula and changed :

Missions
Quests
map
all key item
all titles
xp
merits
craft
magic skill and combat skill level
blu spells
spells
af 1 2 3
trial of magian item
atma
atmacite (with level)
abyssite
some rare/ex items difficult and long to obtain
assaults
etc etc...


Yes and no, if you go to the bard to change your title, titles dont have the same price ! mog title costs 100 gils and AV costs 700 gils.

I understand you, when you saw the achievement points for R E M i posted earlier it seems scary (the 99 glow OMG a lot of points !)
but if you keep track of almost everything in the game it's not so bad.

Because it is broken?

I just turned in items taking my Daurdabla from 85 to 99. That's 75 apademak horns, 1500 heavy metal plates, and 60 riftcinder. Before I turned in those items my rank was 79th on the server. After FFXIAH recognized I had put a hundred hours and 200 million gil worth of work into my character I was moved up!!!!

From 79th to 78th. Roughly the same jump as I would have made if I would have taken my summoner from 96 to 99.

Not an adequate achievement representation.

I suppose we could all just list our net worth and be done with it?

Im not saying that your achievement isnt a large one. Im saying that the amount of gil you have accumulated isnt an accurate measure of how much of the game you have explored.

And sitting by altep crystal #6 for 40 minutes to get 100k exp which would give me more achievement points would somehow give "an accurate measure of how much the game I have explored"?

Give up. Based on your character is evident you have a HUGE bias. You no doubt leveled all jobs to 99 in order to get achievement points and now that there is a threat you might lose your ranking you are trying to defend the current system since exp achievement points count for 70% of your total. The three guys right behind you average 8 relic/emp/mythic weapons and you know there is no way you can compete with them if the system is changed to reflect actual effort. Your opinions are based on self preservation and nothing more.

Fix the system so effort=reward or the system will be worthless (like it is now).

You can fishbot up emps/relics and most of mythics just make them all the same and be done with it

I keep seeing the word "Reward" being used. FFXIAH isn't rewarding players for completing r/m/e , leveling crafts/job, or completing missions. FFXIAH does give players "Recognition". That being said should FFXIAH offer recognition for leveling a job to 99? The sad truth is that the acheivment ranking system doesn't really prove anything. Sure it proves that a player has a level 99 job and a r/e/m but it doesn't prove that the player is skilled enough to use it. It doesn't prove that the person is the original owner of the account. The only thing it really does is give the people who think the rankings mean anything a way to rate players based on what they have. At the end of the day what you have doesn't mean squat if you aren't using it.

I feel like this thread might be on the verge of understanding that there's no way to accurately assign a value to an in game "achievement" that pleases everyone's sense of what's right and isn't easily exploitable by the people that value that number.

If someone spends months training and saving money and buying gear in order to climb a mountain, he's on top of the mountain. If another guy rides in a helicopter and is dropped off on top of a mountain, he's on top of the mountain. Doesn't matter if the prize on top is 435895739857349857349857394857934587349857398573498573498574 dollars or a gold star sticker. The two methods will always separate the two guys. Some people will care, others won't.

These arguments will never end, because there is no "right" way to play the game. Some people prefer to gear a handful of jobs perfectly. Some people prefer to do a little bit of everything. Neither of these people are wrong, and they're never going to agree on what takes more "work."

I don't find fault in people who play the game for FFXIAH points these days. The game has been out for over a decade, and you have to do something to hold your interest. I'd like to see points for combat/magic skills, quests, clears, and other things that come naturally as you play the game (in addition to the current things you receive points for). I think that would paint a more accurate picture of how complete your character is. Because that's just how I think achievement points should work- they should be a completion score.

People have clearly gamed the system to burn jobs to 99 and spam crafts and easy empyrean weapons in an effort to boost their rank. If you add more categories, and the categories are things that "real" players do, such as complete quests and grind up their skills, the people who have gamed the system are going to fall the farthest. Isn't that what most people who are upset about this secretly want, anyway?

Why did anyone think rank = skill in the first place? I don't understand why that idea even started.

Like I said before, the system has never been a representation of how good of a player you are, but how much you have completed in the game.

How about some values for Achievement something like this 40% R/M/E
25% EXP 20% Quest/mission 15% Crafts.
Then this person just wasted 90% of their life on a dying game and a lot of money IRL. Ranks should not be based on gil or hours, Everyone makes gil differently whether they farm dyna daily,they buy gil or have 6+ accounts to bot fish. You know who those people are. Relics and Emp weapons are just as easily bought, The same as paying to sit in Abyssea Altepa to burn a job from 30-99. The only thing that should have more points would be a Mythic weapon cause they take so much time and gil to obtain. It wont hurt my feeling if Job exp gets nerfed cause I'm not going to spend hundreds of IRL dollars to make that little blue number at the top right corner of my
screen to be low.

Relic, Mythic, Empyrean = 69.62%
Jobs and Merits = 22.58%
Crafts, Fishing, and Synergy = 4.97%
Missions = 1.18%
Atma and Abyssite = 1.02%

R/M/E should make up 70%, and I don't think they should go down in points either.

Then you have character development, crafts and synergy, quests and missions, and miscellaneous achievements.

I personally believe that crafts and synergy are just as important as character development, so I think they should both be 12%, Quests and Missions should make up 5%, and Miscellaneous for the last 1%.

just my opinion~

Love it when someone is loses an argument and pulls out the "LOL RL FIRST" "FFXI IS DYING" or "LOL THEY ALL BOT". The beauty of this post is it has all 3.

Ok lets say Relic Mythic Empyrean should be 70% but each one of those should be a different percent. Mythic is the hardest to obtain so it should account for the most of that 70% then followed by Relic then Empyrean. Maybe 35% Mythic 20% Relic 15% Empyrean.

Lmao I just got into this thread but ok. Like I said wont hurt my feelings if the achievement system gets changed.

Every night that I opt for going out over XI, you can be guaranteed I'm spending a minimum of the XI subscription fee. Given that there are definitely times I'd opt for XI, it's probably saving me money.

Paying for EXP is substantially cheaper than paying for a Relic.

You don't really have an argument of any sort layered in there.

If only there was a way to track completed quests for all areas...

Bigger picture at my profile page once the AH staff approves my screenshot submission.

In my opinion, the additional lore, conversations with NPCs, and places you get to visit due to the variety of random quests are what make XI's world feel alive.

Barbar I leveled all my jobs in order to play them. Prior to Abyssea and the easy xp and easy money I was ranked as high as 19 on server. I did most of my crafting leveling and merits well before xp was as abundant as air and gil flowed from dyna. I grinded out my jobs like you grinded out your gil. There is no way you made your most of that 200M that you just spent in the days before Aby. I didnt burn my jobs for points. I have skilled each one of them up, collected all of the spells, learned the majority of weapon skills, gotten a vast majority of the af1, 2 and 3 for each job and upgraded many af1+1, af2+2 and all my af3 is +1 or +2. I have developed my characters. That work is not reflected in the simplistic category of 'xp.' I am not the only one that has put in enormous time into playing different jobs and exploring the game.

As Kalilla has stated clearly, achievements are not a measure of skill, they are a measure of how much of the game you have completed. I also agree that much of the game is structured around grinding for gear. To that effect weighting ~70% of all achievements on items is reasonable. However the game has tons of content not related to grinding gear. To that effect having ~30% of achievements encompass all other aspects of the game is more than fair.

No where do I state that character development should be weighted heavier than it currently is. I am simply saying it should stay the same in weighting and other measures of development added to reflect more accurately how much a player has accomplished on those jobs than simply xp. Honestly, I could see character development loose a little ground to missions and or crafts/other while still maintaining 70% items, 30% everything else.

I think guildwork will do quests soon.

With that said, I don't think quests and missions should be worth more than 5% total.

Yes, I think they are important to the game, but they shouldn't be worth anything close to crafts, character development, etc.

It's my opinion that they should be worth 5% at max, including quests.

Im much more impressed by Calinzt completing all quests in the game then by someone who has millions of gil. How fair is that Cali's achievement isnt weighted at all and therefore isnt even placed in the top 100 players on Asura. Even though probably less than 100 people on the game have ever accomplished that feat?

On the flip side I am also impressed by the sheer number of e/r/m that Jinjo has completed.

Because there was no possible way to keep track of quests.