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The Great Debate 2
 Seraph.Caiyuo
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6524
By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-09-06 23:48:41
Yakutatazu said: Littledarc said: what's wrong with saying more right wing christians? This brought up something that bothers me sometimes. I don't understand how ppl can get upset with someone using gay in a bad way when the same ppl getting upset would use a term like 'right wing' or 'christian' as a bad term. I guess I just don't understand why ppl want to be treated with respect if they aren't willing to treat others with respect. It's the same issue being people are saying "right-wing" or "religious right" in a derogatory manner because they do not agree with it. Just because the same line can be drawn to using the word "gay" to have negative connotations as opposed to being homosexual doesn't justify using either of them in that way. In relation to your actual statement about respect, I don't think many of the groups or people that are opposed by the noisy, hateful side of the religious right (not all) feel respected by them, so there's no incentive to show respect. A "God Hates ***" sign will pretty much kill any and all civility in such a situation. D:
 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2009-09-06 23:48:50
Ludoggy said: Chaosx said:
^This LMFAO!
(I thought we were still trying to rattle some cages here?)
I was being sincere I'm so confused now. If I only had a life coach to get me on the right path...
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-06 23:52:42
Caiyuo said: I get that professionally it's a non-issue, but you're stuck in the military for years and for those years it becomes your life, so to be told to conceal something that personal just seems wrong. I mean I assume this applies on and off literal work hours, along with having no pictures of a partner in personal space or anything that'd lead one to believe you were gay, nor discussion of it despite hetero counter-parts being free to talk about it in idle conversation, right? Well something you need to understand. When you join the military, in your contract you have to swear that you are not homosexual. By 'hiding' it, you have therefore lied and falsified federal documents, therefore you are not eligible to remain in the military. By being given the "don't ask, don't tell" policy it allowed those that were in hiding (yes, the big wigs weren't dumb.. they knew there were those who were, perhaps some up high in the ranks even) to keep it hidden. Otherwise they could be harassed if there was a suspicion until they confessed and were then kicked out. As it stands now, as long as you remain professional there should be no issue not 'telling'.
 Phoenix.Amael
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2982
By Phoenix.Amael 2009-09-06 23:54:14
Yakutatazu said: The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion. So eating shellfish, so a lot of straight people are going to hell. I think that everyone is fearing is change. Times are changing and they are scared shitless. In the end, you know gays will be able to marry. Is it a choice? I'm gay. IF it was a Choice i really can't recall the time I sat down and said, "hmm, I should go for the Johnson instead of the Vagoo." I don't feel is a choice. WHY WOULD I CHOOSE TO BE DISRESPECTED, CRITIZIED AND HATED? Why I ask you?! If I don't feel sexually attracted to Women, THEN it was my CHOICE? IS IT? Just because I CHOOSED TO NOT DENY MYSELF, and not be a closet case like some people who end up molesting children, I make the choice to be Homosexual? I didn't choose it. Don't say I did.
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 859
By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-06 23:54:48
Yakutatazu said: I don't understand how anyone can say someone can't base their opinion on the Bible. Just b/c you don't write it doesn't mean you can't follow/believe it. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion.
To say no is a breach of the freedom of religion. They are free to believe what they want, as long as they do not break the law to oppose same-sex marriage they have the right to oppose it. i have no problem if that is their opinion but having an opinion because a book says so without really understanding something is just plain senseless. especially when a lot of other things in that book are no longer followed. Genesis 3 16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.someone ruling over you and forcing you to bear his children is kinda rape. just saying.
1 Corinthians 14
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.female pastors anyone? Colossians 3 18
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
1 Timothy 2 11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.
1 Peter 3 1
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands
i'm not down for oppressing women. either you following everything in the bible or you follow nothing. you can't pick and choose what you want to follow. cause hey i could go on a murdering rampage and as long as i go to confession im good with the lord right?
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-06 23:58:22
Amael said:
So eating shellfish, so a lot of straight people are going to hell.
You ask for forgiveness and its all forgiven, duh. Amael said:
Is it a choice? I'm gay. IF it was a Choice i really can't recall the time I sat down and said, "hmm, I should go for the Johnson instead of the Vagoo." I don't feel is a choice. WHY WOULD I CHOOSE TO BE DISRESPECTED, CRITIZIED AND HATED? Why I ask you?! If I don't feel sexually attracted to Women, THEN it was my CHOICE? IS IT? Just because I CHOOSED TO NOT DENY MYSELF, and not be a closet case like some people who end up molesting children, I make the choice to be Homosexual? I didn't choose it. Don't say I did.
Yeah I dont chose to be hated on for being a polygamist pedo. But doesnt mean I dont CHOOSE to like XXXXXX
 Cerberus.Katarzyna
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-09-07 00:00:24
Yakutatazu said: I don't understand how anyone can say someone can't base their opinion on the Bible. Just b/c you don't write it doesn't mean you can't follow/believe it. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion.
To say no is a breach of the freedom of religion. They are free to believe what they want, as long as they do not break the law to oppose same-sex marriage they have the right to oppose it. What about freedom FROM religion, as in forcing one's religion down other peoples' throats? People can quote Bible verses all they want. They can say homosecuality is a sin. That's fine. That's their OPINION, not absolute truth. They have no right to force their way of living down upon other people, which is exactly what proposition 8 was.
Phoenix.Amael
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2982
By Phoenix.Amael 2009-09-07 00:00:36
Ludoggy said: Yeah I dont chose to be hated on for being a polygamist pedo. But doesnt mean I dont CHOOSE to like XXXXXX Polygamist is being greedy LOL. But Pedophile you know better. I dont get the XXXXXX
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-07 00:01:15
Just because you, I and a ton of others don't support the Bible doesn't mean someone else can't. It's their decision on what they base their opinion on, it's not yours. I don't see how you guys can get all high and mighty and say someone can't believe in something b/c everyone else is changing their views.
サーバ: Fairy
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Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-07 00:02:25
Katarzyna said: Yakutatazu said: I don't understand how anyone can say someone can't base their opinion on the Bible. Just b/c you don't write it doesn't mean you can't follow/believe it. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion.
To say no is a breach of the freedom of religion. They are free to believe what they want, as long as they do not break the law to oppose same-sex marriage they have the right to oppose it. What about freedom FROM religion, as in forcing one's religion down other peoples' throats? People can quote Bible verses all they want. They can say homosecuality is a sin. That's fine. That's their OPINION, not absolute truth. They have no right to force their way of living down upon other people, which is exactly what proposition 8 was. lol.. you're preaching to someone that is agnostic on the freedom from religion.. it's a 2 way street.. enough said.
サーバ: Garuda
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Posts: 859
By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-07 00:02:30
Katarzyna said: Yakutatazu said: I don't understand how anyone can say someone can't base their opinion on the Bible. Just b/c you don't write it doesn't mean you can't follow/believe it. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion.
To say no is a breach of the freedom of religion. They are free to believe what they want, as long as they do not break the law to oppose same-sex marriage they have the right to oppose it. What about freedom FROM religion, as in forcing one's religion down other peoples' throats? People can quote Bible verses all they want. They can say homosecuality is a sin. That's fine. That's their OPINION, not absolute truth. They have no right to force their way of living down upon other people, which is exactly what proposition 8 was. i would love it if they took in god we trust off my money. just sayin.
サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-07 00:02:55
Katarzyna said: They have no right to force their way of living down upon other people, which is exactly what proposition 8 was.
Prop 8 was about over turning what a few judges over turned in the first place. The people of California voted against gay marriage twice.
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Game: FFXI
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-07 00:04:12
Amael said: I dont get the XXXXXX Thats a fill in the void kind of thing. <enter little asian girl> =\ Littledarc said:
i would love it if they took in god we trust off my money. just sayin.
I think that was put there when the gold standard was thrown out the window,
サーバ: Garuda
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Posts: 859
By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-07 00:04:38
Yakutatazu said: Just because you, I and a ton of others don't support the Bible doesn't mean someone else can't. It's their decision on what they base their opinion on, it's not yours. I don't see how you guys can get all high and mighty and say someone can't believe in something b/c everyone else is changing their views. i'm not saying they can't believe it. i'm saying if they are gonna believe it then do it whole heartedly. especailly if they use it for an argument (like the bible says homosexuality is a sin) they either follow everything or follow nothing.
Cerberus.Katarzyna
サーバ: Cerberus
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Posts: 1354
By Cerberus.Katarzyna 2009-09-07 00:05:28
Yakutatazu said: Just because you, I and a ton of others don't support the Bible doesn't mean someone else can't. It's their decision on what they base their opinion on, it's not yours. I don't see how you guys can get all high and mighty and say someone can't believe in something b/c everyone else is changing their views. As far as I'm concerned, they can believe that that Mickey Mouse is god. I don't care what people believe in, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down other peoples' throats by denying them rights over religious propaganda.
Phoenix.Amael
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2982
By Phoenix.Amael 2009-09-07 00:06:54
Katarzyna said: As far as I'm concerned, they can believe that that Mickey Mouse is god. I lol'ed
サーバ: Fairy
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Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-07 00:08:55
Amael said: Is it a choice? I'm gay. IF it was a Choice i really can't recall the time I sat down and said, "hmm, I should go for the Johnson instead of the Vagoo." I don't feel is a choice. WHY WOULD I CHOOSE TO BE DISRESPECTED, CRITIZIED AND HATED? Why I ask you?! If I don't feel sexually attracted to Women, THEN it was my CHOICE? IS IT? Just because I CHOOSED TO NOT DENY MYSELF, and not be a closet case like some people who end up molesting children, I make the choice to be Homosexual? I didn't choose it. Don't say I did. Idk who the *** you were talking to, but you quoted me so I'll respond. First off, your not wanting anyone to dislike your way of life.. that's just naive. No matter what you feel/belief, someone will be opposed to it. No matter what you do, someone will dislike you for it. Someone doesn't like you b/c you're gay? Get over it, it's life. Secondly, I never said it was a choice. I have no idea what makes someone homosexual, it might be sociological, biological or w/e idk.. frankly I could care less if you're homosexual, makes no difference.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2009-09-07 00:09:22
Amael said: Yakutatazu said: The Bible says homosexuality is a sin, and therefore them supporting it could be against their religion. So eating shellfish, so a lot of straight people are going to hell. I think that everyone is fearing is change. Times are changing and they are scared shitless. In the end, you know gays will be able to marry. Is it a choice? I'm gay. IF it was a Choice i really can't recall the time I sat down and said, "hmm, I should go for the Johnson instead of the Vagoo." I don't feel is a choice. WHY WOULD I CHOOSE TO BE DISRESPECTED, CRITIZIED AND HATED? Why I ask you?! If I don't feel sexually attracted to Women, THEN it was my CHOICE? IS IT? Just because I CHOOSED TO NOT DENY MYSELF, and not be a closet case like some people who end up molesting children, I make the choice to be Homosexual? I didn't choose it. Don't say I did. /em gets his cage rattling hands ready Religion is a choice. People choose to be jewish. Apparently they choose to be hated, criticized, disrespected, and put to death about some 55 or so years ago. That's some hardcore mental discipline, do I renounce my faith or die? Moses, never heard of him I say. People choose to be Muslim. Some muslims choose to be terrorists. derail here for a minute: If a muslim eats pork, but doesn't know about it, do they still go to hell? Where was I? Oh yeah, everything about a person's lifestyle is a choice. Your genes are the only things you can't choose yet. Show me the gay gene!
サーバ: Fairy
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Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-07 00:10:36
Katarzyna said: As far as I'm concerned, they can believe that that Mickey Mouse is god. I don't care what people believe in, as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down other peoples' throats by denying them rights over religious propaganda. Well, I hope you realize then that your pushing someone to support your ideas on something they view religious i.e. homosexuality that it is exactly the same thing to them.
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 859
By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-07 00:10:52
so....do we have heterosexual hate crimes based solely on the fact that you aren't gay? just asking...
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2009-09-07 00:12:41
Amael said: Katarzyna said: As far as I'm concerned, they can believe that that Mickey Mouse is god. I lol'ed DON'T LOL AT MY GOD! He will smite u!
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-07 00:13:11
Chaosx said:
derail here for a minute: If a muslim eats pork, but doesn't know about it, do they still go to hell?
I think like in Christianity you can be forgiven Chaosx said:
Where was I? Oh yeah, everything about a person's lifestyle is a choice. Your genes are the only things you can't choose yet. Show me the gay gene!
think there way something like the direction of your hair spining or something crazy...
Phoenix.Amael
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2982
By Phoenix.Amael 2009-09-07 00:13:39
Chaosx said:
Religion is a choice. People choose to be jewish. Apparently they choose to be hated, criticized, disrespected, and put to death about some 55 or so years ago. That's some hardcore mental discipline, do I renounce my faith or die? Moses, never heard of him I say.
People choose to be Muslim. Some muslims choose to be terrorists.
derail here for a minute: If a muslim eats pork, but doesn't know about it, do they still go to hell?
Where was I? Oh yeah, everything about a person's lifestyle is a choice. Your genes are the only things you can't choose yet. Show me the gay gene!
WOW WOW WOW WOW WAIT A BLOODY MINUTE!!! Being a JEW is not a choice. Being Jewish is an Ethnicity. And also not all Muslims are terrorist. Do some reading on the subject first.
サーバ: Garuda
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Posts: 859
By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-07 00:14:10
Ludoggy said: Chaosx said:
derail here for a minute: If a muslim eats pork, but doesn't know about it, do they still go to hell?
I think like in Christianity you can be forgiven Chaosx said:
Where was I? Oh yeah, everything about a person's lifestyle is a choice. Your genes are the only things you can't choose yet. Show me the gay gene!
think there way something like the direction of your hair spining or something crazy... how do you know to ask for forgiveness if you don't know you've eaten pork though :O
Bahamut.Rumaha
サーバ: Bahamut
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Posts: 10000
By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-09-07 00:14:27
***, I am not reading all that, I put my opinion in and debated for a minute, I tried lol, be back when next one is made ._.
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-09-07 00:14:42
Littledarc said: so....do we have heterosexual hate crimes based solely on the fact that you aren't gay? just asking... Do we have homosexual hate crimes that get away with it legally when a heterosexual hate crime wouldn't? Just asking too...
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2009-09-07 00:15:59
Amael said: WOW WOW WOW WOW WAIT A BLOODY MINUTE!!! Being a JEW is not a choice. Being Jewish is an Ethnicity. And also not all Muslims are terrorist. Do some reading on the subject first.lol...I just learned something new...I though Judaism=Jew... Littledarc said:
how do you know to ask for forgiveness if you don't know you've eaten pork though :O
I dont think their god is that mean.
Phoenix.Amael
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2982
By Phoenix.Amael 2009-09-07 00:16:59
Yakutatazu said: Littledarc said: so....do we have heterosexual hate crimes based solely on the fact that you aren't gay? just asking... Do we have homosexual hate crimes that get away with it legally when a heterosexual hate crime wouldn't? Just asking too... I dont get your Point Yaku. There has been Hate crimes against gays, jews, blacks, etc.
Seraph.Caiyuo
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6524
By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-09-07 00:17:42
Now ***'s getting interesting. lol
Yes, religion and lack thereof is a 2-way street, but as it stands the gay community is living under a precedent that is based around a religious belief and being stabilized as such, as if America was built on Christianity from our inception (sorry for not looking outward, Karu!) or that we aren't a giant collaboration of nationalities, religions and ethnicity. To allow a predominantly christian view hold those who do not observe the same views or who are condemned by said religion is pretty *** preposterous in a place like America where freedom is supposed to be our giant tourist buzzword that occupies like 90% of the world's bumper stickers. The lack of discrimination isn't leaping from one end to the spectrum to the other, it's just the void of a discriminatory law that for what I hope most people would at their moral core agree is wrong.
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By Garuda.Littledarc 2009-09-07 00:18:48
i'm just saying i've never seen a purely heterosexual hate crime. i've seen a lot of homosexual hate crimes abd just telling someone to get over it seems kinda cold hearted. that's like telling someone that's jewish to get over the holocaust. when you get targeted by so many people it's very hard to "get over it".
The idea of this thread is to discuss and debate topics in a mature environment with evidence to support ideas. We are a group of people covering multiple countries and beliefs, with differing age groups and worldly experiences, this is an opportunity to share your ideas on topics that comprise the world today. Things to remember: No attacks on other posters. If you have an opinion that is different to someone else, say so and provide evidence to support your opinion. No one is wrong in their opinions, it's an opinion. If you post however please expect people to make responses to what you say. This means keep an open mind. If you're not prepared to have someone think differently to you maybe it's best if you don't post. It's OK to have fun in this thread, just not at someone else's expense. The last debate was a bit of a soft one to try and see how we would go with it. Most people had ideas on the subject and it was managed very well by all. This time it's going to be a bit more controvertial. While this is a debate, it's about explaining your way of thinking, not trying to manipulate others to think the way you do. I will repeat myself, do not ruin this thread for the rest of us. Following the last successful debate on school uniforms comes this weeks topic from one of our posters: Should same-sex marriages be allowed?
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