Rhongomiant Application

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Rhongomiant Application
Rhongomiant Application
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 18:25:55  
what is the total cumulative bonus of all the job points? mobile browsing is a pain when it comes to that kind of information, easy to scroll over something by accident
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-09-22 18:29:51  
Sylph.Cherche said: »
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Sylph.Cherche said: »
I mean, it's pretty easy to check out what the behind the scenes stuff is in Braden's spreadsheet. And then cross reference it with information readily available on BGWiki.

Lets wait and see his savvy comeback~ by that I mean [pathetically trying to sound smart by providing only text and no data]
Eh. Austar tends to know their stuff.

But they, like Savael and others also like to make a ton of assumptions.

Like Savael and Bloodlusty dismissing Torcleaver because it had a tendency to slightly under perform compared to Resolution in a zerg. While completely ignoring it's absolutely superior skill chaining properties.

Where they then posted a zerg video of Bloods under the pretense of "skill chains don't happen" often. Said video showed back to back to back to back Light/Darkness Skillchains the entire time.

Savael, now, is a proponent of multi-step skill chains. But he was rather dismissive of them not too long ago.

Even if that is true, the lack of proper debate ethics dismisses that entirely!

You can hold your position until proven wrong, personally i don't pay attention to such trivial matters and try to report findings.

I dont give someone's opinion any value in such matter if they don't provide evidence, especially when others went on and built said weapons to try them out in game or whatever.

This dismissive arrogant behavior is a clear sign of incompetence when you don't provide any concrete evidence and/or debate properly.

No logic whatsoever in that argument by rating Rho lower than mythic or even relic.

The advocacy of multi-step skill chain was debated over and over and proven by trial that its far superior to other zerg scenarios.

Eventually people play however they like and design their strats according to their group.

But when it comes to numbers, Spreadsheet accuracy can't be dismissed even if there is a margin of error.

TL;DR
Statements were made without proving anything and debate became personal to justify said statements despite of the various testimonies provided.
Dismissiveness based on feelings are generally stupid.
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By Chriscoffey 2017-09-22 18:33:40  
Leviathan.Sidra said: »
I am working on one right now, but yeah, there aren't a lot of them out there.

In Max buff start with 3k TP burst situations, it is our strongest weapon.

This is from some notes I took a few months ago messing with the spreadsheet. For Gungnir and Rhon I used 5 hit builds max OAT, and for Trish and Ryu I used 4 hit builds. I used very strong albeit not 100% perfect gearsets. Sadly, I don't remember exactly what and my notes aren't more detailed as I was doing it more for personal knowledge and understanding than putting it out there for the world to see. My notes say max haste/acc/att, Crooked +5 Fighter/SAM.

Rhong: 5967
Trish: 5796
Gungnir: 5218
Ryu: 5089

I also noted removing the COR puts the Ryu above the Gungnir, and widens the gap between Rhon and Trish.

This is one very specific situation, and I think the case can be made that Trish is a superior weapons since you gain Ultimate skillchain options for solo or organzied group stuff, and perform better in shorter duration stuff where AM needs built.

Chriscoffey said: »
Asura.Valguard said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
I like how things are becoming more and more imperfectly balanced.

This^. As Saevel stated previously, it seems like they're all fairly equal as long as you gear appropriately for the weapon that you choose to obtain.

Using all the same Buffs that Byrth had set earlier, (Basically everything maxed in a perfect situation) I have (Ryu)Drakebane at 5955 DPS and Trish at 5900. Still tweaking. That's not even enogh damage difference to really say one is better than the other.

Obivously with everything else in FF. It is going to be situational and having more options to fill those situations, is better. :)

Now for me, just need to finish collecting alexandrite... /sigh
This was previously posted about DPS values. Rhom/Trish/Ryu are all very close depending on buffs you set up. I imagine if you perfect Rhom it could squeeze a bit more out considering 3k tp etc. Just posting this to reiterate the point that Real Buffs Matter to each weapon that you get.
Rho: 5967
Ryu: 5955
Trish: 5900
These values are subjective to any types of buffs you are receiving or skillchain frequency to pull ahead of the other and also can be adjusted further considering these were several months previous in some situations where new gear has been added. I don't have Gungnir available but it would pull ahead, as previously mentioned in the other forum topics, in low accuracy situations . I am getting real tired of the same argument over and over again just because Trish is easier to get doesn't make it the end all be all weapon compared to other options. You can literally define situations for every REMA for where they are stronger than the other for dragoon atm and that's great because it gives you more options than just one single weapon.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 18:41:45  
yeah but trish doesn't mean you have to waste merit points
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-09-22 18:47:33  
Spirit Surge: Weapon Damage+20
Fly High: All Jumps: ATT+100
Ancient Circle: Damage taken from dragons -20%
Spirit Link: Caster HP Reducution -20%
Wyvern HP +200
Dragon breaker Duration +20 Seconds
Wyvern Breath Effect +200
High/Soul Jump: ATT+60
ATT/DEF+40

Relevant Gifts:
ATT+70
ACC+63
Double Attack +15%
Critical Damage +8%
[+]
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 18:48:22  
the first att +40 is for the pet, isn't it?
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-09-22 18:49:58  
It's based off the pet being leveled up. Like the percentage boost we get in lieu of a buff like berserk of last resort.

"Increases the master's physical attack and defense when the wyvern's attributes are boosted."
 Leviathan.Sidra
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By Leviathan.Sidra 2017-09-22 18:50:03  
No, It's the Dragoons attack while the Wyvern is out and you are Spirit Linked. Basically, DRG have a full time 20% + 40 attack buff.
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 19:44:36  
I have all the math-y stuff coded, I just need to define gear if there are any specific sets people want to use.
 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-09-22 19:59:51  
Since the debate included the spreadsheet that I provided, maybe use my set in there and call it a day.

It would be a well presented case for proposed arguments.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 20:03:42  
google docs doesn't load on my phone
 Sylph.Cherche
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By Sylph.Cherche 2017-09-22 20:05:11  
Might as well use the sets on the BGWiki guide. They appear to be quite good.

Optimized TP sets for each weapon, and the high/max tier for each applicable weaponskill.
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 Leviathan.Katriina
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By Leviathan.Katriina 2017-09-22 20:13:36  
Sure that works and here is my TP Set on Rho:

ItemSet 353330

Valorous Mail : 10 CHR 14 Acc 7 Att 8 STP
Valorous Hose : 5 VIT 30 ACC 34 ATK 4% DA
Valorous Greaves: 24 ATK 5% DA
Back: 30 DEX 20 ACC/ATK 10% DA

For Trish I use the same but with 4 Hit build Swapping:
Neck for [Anu] 20 ATK 7 STP
Back with 10 STP
Legs with 7 VIT 24 ACC 21 ATK 8 STP
Hands for Acro: 10 STR 15 ACC/ATK 6 STP

Edit: on spreadsheet I tried to use the same TP set from Rho on Trish and DPS went up (Rho leads by only 100)
in 4HIT TP set for Trish (Rho leads by 300ish)
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-22 23:20:15  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
This thread is moving to fast for me. lol.

Ramuh.Austar said: »
I can write a simulation that will more accurately model maintaining aftermath. You don't even know wtf pdif is.
I'd be pretty interested in that simulation. well assuming a mathematical layman could understand how to use it.

have the majority of it done so far, I just need to add a few things if you want to look over the initial stats and the gear itself to make sure it's all correct or if you want more gear added. stats like da, stp, wsd, and crit damage need to be decimals

As far as how to use it, it'll have a very simple interface
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 15:13:40  
have a working one made now:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/02ybb5ro4n02rje/drg.cpython-36.pyc?dl=0

disclaimers: no relic or mythic added yet, rho has no upkeep on AM3, it's always active, some stats like conserve tp and fotia % tp keep aren't added yet, jumps aren't added yet, fury isn't added yet, or escha buffs

mostly just want someone to make sure all the stats match

and for those that want the source:
[+]
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-09-23 19:25:09  
I have to admit that I have no idea how to use that file. And my limited googling hasn't helped any.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 19:26:46  
I thought I knew how to use it, then I got an error when I hit the run simulation button lol
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 19:26:52  
use the exe app from the drop box. you'd need python 3 and tkinter to run it in your own shell

and windows os, probably. idk how macs handle anything
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 19:27:04  
Siren.Kyte said: »
I thought I knew how to use it, then I got an error when I hit the run simulation button lol
what kind of error?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 19:30:13  
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 19:32:06  
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5jngsv029dcpzin/AAAffOUhju970X9aZMJpM8K5a?dl=0

try this link and put them all in the same folder, the .exe will be in the _pyache_ folder

that means somewhere it divided by zero, so guessing mob wasn't selected? this one I had updated to have most things filled in with a default choice so you can't accidentally not have a mob selected
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 19:44:25  
I think it does have a mob selected by default already
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 19:45:27  
it does now, I don't know if the old link did. is it still giving the same error with the new link?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 19:50:53  
It is yeah
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 20:02:12  
did you change anything or left everything as is from the downloaded files?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 20:11:23  
I kept it all the same and within the extracted folder.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-23 20:12:11  
Where is it saying the errors are on the new one? might be an issue with the compiler, which is why I can run it still
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-09-23 20:16:03  


So pretty much the same.