Ragnarok.Blindphleb said:

Cause both the builds I'm talking about are 5 hit polearms without having to mess with rose strap. Ace's/Usu body/Dusk gloves/Byakko/Usu feet is the build I'm talking about. You don't need to use rose for that.

Ah I was looking at the Hauby build on the other page, which was down 6sTP, which will break the true 5hit (and possibly make a psuedo 5hit impossible).

In that case its pretty damn close.

Edit: Some maths

4STR, 4 ATT (7attack if you inc the attack from STR) and 2.5 acc vs 1% haste.

This is very close to the Turban vs Askar debate with the exception of the 4 attack.

Now the maths between Askar and Turban is all over the place so I won’t redo it all (frankly I don’t have time), but the difference is small (I think we can all agree there) and normally the ‘finishing move’ for the turban supporters is ‘you should be using pizza any way’ thus removing the need for any of the accuracy, which is the one thing Askar has going for it.

Obviously when the aim is a meat build on a mob where pizza doesn’t work (unless you’re a billionaire) then the accuracy can not be discounted in the same way as it can for most normal situations.

IIRC a full Usukane gets you to 93% if you can ride Hasso full time, so that 91.75 % for the mix and match set, so the 2.5% accuracy is 1.36% increase in DoT and WS frequency.

4STR is 1fSTR which will be ~1% increase in DoT. Now off the top of my head know the TP:WS ratio for a polearm SAM (any clues), but I will assume 60:40 (aka GKT SAM). So the 1 fSTR is 0.4% global damage.

The 1% haste is 2.8% increase in DoT and WS frequency (assuming 65% base haste).

The 7 attack is going to be harder to estimate. But it needs give at least a 1% increase in global damage then the Ace’s set will win. To give a 1% increase to global damage it needs to give a 2.5% increase in DoT. So you will only get 1% increase from 7 attack if your base attack is 280 or lower (7/0.025 = 280).

So it looks like (unless I missed something) the Ace’s set would be ~0.5-0.8% better. Although the TP:WS split was a guess, and if that changes then it would affect the results a little bit (More DoT favors Usukane, more WS favors Aces')