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[Dev] DRK - Magic Usage
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 29745
By Asura.Dameshi 2011-12-12 12:24:59
Samurai can solo skillchains easy.
Dancer can solo skillchains easy.
Blu can solo skillchains easy.
Ukko war can solo a light skillchain massively.
Drg can solo skillchains via Spirit Link.
Nin can dodge skillchains (tenzen fight).
Pup can skillchain with their thing.
I don't think Drk fits with the group above.
What about a JA that allows the next ws (perhaps limited to entropy) that allows the closing of Darkness every x minutes?
This also allows the enhancement of any magic casted within the burst.
An addition of other darkness spells and Magic Burst Bonus should go along with it too.
This also ups the damage of entropy with the closing of a lvl3 sc.
Either that, or entropy should just straight up drain TP instead of MP. I have self-skillchained on DRK with absorb-TP >.>
 Carbuncle.Riaka
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 43
By Carbuncle.Riaka 2011-12-12 12:44:52
I would like to see some spells that drain enemy stats per weapon swing. Something like drain str where every time I swing and hit the mob with my weapon I take a portion of their str and it's added to my next hit while under the effect.
But this will have to be effective against NM's for it to be of any use.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20
By Odin.Seconds 2011-12-12 12:48:30
Samurai can solo skillchains easy.
Dancer can solo skillchains easy.
Blu can solo skillchains easy.
Ukko war can solo a light skillchain massively.
Drg can solo skillchains via Spirit Link.
Nin can dodge skillchains (tenzen fight).
Pup can skillchain with their thing.
I don't think Drk fits with the group above.
What about a JA that allows the next ws (perhaps limited to entropy) that allows the closing of Darkness every x minutes?
This also allows the enhancement of any magic casted within the burst.
An addition of other darkness spells and Magic Burst Bonus should go along with it too.
This also ups the damage of entropy with the closing of a lvl3 sc.
Either that, or entropy should just straight up drain TP instead of MP. I have self-skillchained on DRK with absorb-TP >.>
I'd like to ask what skillchain you made and by using which weapon skills.
Anything that you could burst your drk magic on?
Oh and, isn't it true that Absorb-TP, being a dark spell and all, is almost useless vs bats/mushrooms/any dark elemental mob? And if a mob is hit with say plague from a Blu, it can heavily limit the effectiveness of said spell.
I'm talking about something much more reliable, that doesn't lose its effectiveness based on the mob/party you are fighting with.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-12 12:53:32
Ok here's the list of spells drk gets now and at best a few are worth casting situationally
05 Stone
06 Poison
10 Drain (if you're not fighting undead and for some reason you're not getting cured and are in need of HP)
11 Water
15 Bio
17 Aero
20 Aspir (if you're fighting something with MP and you somehow managed to run low on MP)
20 Bind
23 Fire
26 Poisonga
29 Blizzard
Level Spell
30 Sleep
31 Absorb-MND
32 Tractor
33 Absorb-CHR
35 Thunder
35 Absorb-VIT
37 Stun (obvious)
37 Absorb-AGI
39 Absorb-INT
40 Bio II
41 Absorb-DEX
Level Spell
42 Stone II
43 Absorb-STR
45 Absorb-TP (in theroy a good spell in practice not so much)
46 Poison II
48 Water II
54 Aero II
56 Sleep II
60 Fire II
61 Absorb-ACC (if you're not at 95% hit rate)
62 Drain II (same as drain)
66 Blizzard II
Level Spell
71 Dread Spikes (if at the start of a fight and you know you're going to have hate for a bit)
72 Thunder II
76 Stone III
78 Aspir II (same as aspir)
80 Water III
84 Aero III
85 Endark (this one actually adds to white dmg, as long as you don't have any other en-effect to benefit from)
88 Fire III
91 Absorb-Attri (very situational)
92 Blizzard III
95 Break
So even if SE were to make these all instant cast, there still wouldn't be much point to casting most of them. Like many others have said, in order for these to be used, they need to allow you to do the same amount of overall damage (at worst) as you would just by not casting them, or increase your damage output.
In short the whole magic system for drk would have to be reworked, and lets be honest, this is SE we're talking about and none of that will happen, they will just /bandaid it to death and nothing will be actually fixed.
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 29745
By Asura.Dameshi 2011-12-12 12:53:33
Samurai can solo skillchains easy.
Dancer can solo skillchains easy.
Blu can solo skillchains easy.
Ukko war can solo a light skillchain massively.
Drg can solo skillchains via Spirit Link.
Nin can dodge skillchains (tenzen fight).
Pup can skillchain with their thing.
I don't think Drk fits with the group above.
What about a JA that allows the next ws (perhaps limited to entropy) that allows the closing of Darkness every x minutes?
This also allows the enhancement of any magic casted within the burst.
An addition of other darkness spells and Magic Burst Bonus should go along with it too.
This also ups the damage of entropy with the closing of a lvl3 sc.
Either that, or entropy should just straight up drain TP instead of MP. I have self-skillchained on DRK with absorb-TP >.>
I'd like to ask what skillchain you made and by using which weapon skills.
Anything that you could burst your drk magic on? I never said it was a useful skillchain xD.
It would be nice to have those options for sure. Being able to self-skillchain + MB Drain II would make DRK much better.
While that would be awesome, I think I'd prefer to see something that sets DRK apart from other jobs, instead of giving it a mechanic that other jobs have.
[+]
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20
By Odin.Seconds 2011-12-12 13:03:31
Then, Drain and Drain II should also have an additional effect: Drain TP.
And every other absorb spell should have an additional effect: Drain HP. Not nearly as hard as an HP drain compared to Drain/Drain II, but something to make it a bit more worthwhile.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-12 14:03:19
knowing SE they will just give us "Death" costing 666mp(lolz gl with that) and a .05% chance of it landing on a Too Weak mob. and say that they fixed drk.
Edit: Entropy should have "Has a Chance to Absorb Hp,Mp, or Tp." they can also make it
100% --> Drains HP 25% Dmg dealt/ MP 10% Dmg Dealt/ Tp 2% Dmg Dealt.
200% --> Drains HP 50% Dmg dealt/ MP 15% Dmg dealt/ TP 4% Dmg Dealt.
300% --> Drains HP 75% Dmg dealt/ MP 25% Dmg dealt/ Tp 6% Dmg dealt.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4251
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-12 14:17:34
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »knowing SE they will just give us "Death" costing 666mp(lolz gl with that) and a .05% chance of it landing on a Too Weak mob. and say that they fixed drk. Edit: Entropy should have "Has a Chance to Absorb Hp,Mp, or Tp." they can also make it 100% --> Drains HP 25% Dmg dealt/ MP 10% Dmg Dealt/ Tp 2% Dmg Dealt. 200% --> Drains HP 50% Dmg dealt/ MP 15% Dmg dealt/ TP 4% Dmg Dealt. 300% --> Drains HP 75% Dmg dealt/ MP 25% Dmg dealt/ Tp 6% Dmg dealt.
2000 damage x .06 = 120 tp return
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 29745
By Asura.Dameshi 2011-12-12 14:18:09
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »knowing SE they will just give us "Death" costing 666mp(lolz gl with that) and a .05% chance of it landing on a Too Weak mob. and say that they fixed drk. Edit: Entropy should have "Has a Chance to Absorb Hp,Mp, or Tp." they can also make it 100% --> Drains HP 25% Dmg dealt/ MP 10% Dmg Dealt/ Tp 2% Dmg Dealt. 200% --> Drains HP 50% Dmg dealt/ MP 15% Dmg dealt/ TP 4% Dmg Dealt. 300% --> Drains HP 75% Dmg dealt/ MP 25% Dmg dealt/ Tp 6% Dmg dealt.
2000 damage x .06 = 120 tp return I'm okay with this!
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-12 14:19:49
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »knowing SE they will just give us "Death" costing 666mp(lolz gl with that) and a .05% chance of it landing on a Too Weak mob. and say that they fixed drk. Edit: Entropy should have "Has a Chance to Absorb Hp,Mp, or Tp." they can also make it 100% --> Drains HP 25% Dmg dealt/ MP 10% Dmg Dealt/ Tp 2% Dmg Dealt. 200% --> Drains HP 50% Dmg dealt/ MP 15% Dmg dealt/ TP 4% Dmg Dealt. 300% --> Drains HP 75% Dmg dealt/ MP 25% Dmg dealt/ Tp 6% Dmg dealt.
2000 damage x .06 = 120 tp return
Ya i know. like the weapons they can make it
chances HP 50% MP 35% and TP 15%.
and besides who ws's at 300tp besides VW? its not broken. getting another ws after a 300 ws 15% of the time or they can even make it 10% isnt game breaking powerful..
Edit :also id like to point out meditate and reverse flourish. so.... and 2k dmg isnt on new NMs i thought that was abyssea dmg?
Bismarck.Selzak
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 89
By Bismarck.Selzak 2011-12-12 16:17:30
Here's an idea I posted on the OF:
Quote: Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.
*These spells overwrite eachother.
Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.
If you like it, you can go and support it for me. Better yet, if you can speak/write Japanese go post it on the Japanese board so someone takes it seriously lol.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 768
By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-12-12 16:45:31
Here's an idea I posted on the OF:
Quote: Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.
*These spells overwrite eachother.
Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.
If you like it, you can go and support it for me. Better yet, if you can speak/write Japanese go post it on the Japanese board so someone takes it seriously lol.
Does not really follow drk's classic absorb line of spells.... I don't want to be a rdm.
Bismarck.Sylow
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2011-12-12 17:03:38
H if you can speak/write Japanese go post it on the Japanese board so someone takes it seriously lol.
Waste of time.
JP players also *** about how the dev team doesn't listen to players.
Valefor.Ivaan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 605
By Valefor.Ivaan 2011-12-12 17:39:12
i dunno if it has been mentioned (im sure it has somewhere)
but it doesnt matter what spell they make for drk unless it has viable use against our current endgame scheme mobs.
this is of course amongst the plethora of other reason people have already mentioned that dont have to be repeated.
By Chyula 2011-12-13 11:14:38
give drk an enspell like effect and called it imbue, but the drawback is mp cost per swing. Make it 3 tier elemental imbue and raise the mp cost per swing with the higher tier, if it sound too damn owerpower then put a slow% on it as a draw back. Make the it mp cost a percentage of your mp not a fixed amount, like tier 1 can have a max of 20 swings from your mp pool, tier 2 15 swings, tier 3 10 swings, tier 4 4-5 swings. or give it a fixed amount so other races like taru have advantage on this with the sacrific of less hp and base str compare to elv.
Tier 1 100 dmg added elementals dmg
Tier 2 200 dmg
Tier 3 300 dmg
Tier 4 from spell learning or make it merit special this final magical dmg like twilight scythe a big whooping 500 dmg but cost 20-25% mp pool per swing so no one can abuse it.
Problem fixed.
By Phoenix.Cathaldus 2011-12-13 11:19:06
So.... a glorified elemental-enspells, that's not DRK's field.
By Chyula 2011-12-13 11:19:37
atleast it'll put drk's mp in use.
By Phoenix.Cathaldus 2011-12-13 11:23:09
atleast it'll put drk's mp in use.
I prefer the dark magical nuke idea. It suits the job, and if they do a high MP cost, low casting time it works for the only thing you'd use it for Occult Acumen.
By Chyula 2011-12-13 11:26:29
the problem is drk can never compete to a blm's nuke, the low tier spell will not help and its not even good to waste time casting spell and slow your tp gain rate. instead of competing for fancy nuke nubmers using my suggest will switch the job away from nuking and make it use the mana pool on a different way, also making the drk job unique on its own. maybe this increased DoT will stop the complaint of lack of super high number ws.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 11:28:30
Phoenix.Cathaldus said: »atleast it'll put drk's mp in use.
I prefer the dark magical nuke idea. It suits the job, and if they do a high MP cost, low casting time it works for the only thing you'd use it for Occult Acumen.
It would also make scythe a more viable weapon and the new ws a lot more precious.
By Phoenix.Cathaldus 2011-12-13 11:30:32
the problem is drk can never compete to a blm's nuke, the low tier spell will not help and its not even good to waste time casting spell and slow your tp gain rate. instead of competing for fancy nuke nubmers using my suggest will switch the job away from nuking and make it use the mana pool on a different way, also making the drk job unique on its own.
It would depend on the cost and casting time.
The major issues with your way is:
1. Elemental Enspells is RDM's group, what little they have.
2. *Balance* would lock it at max 200 damage, most likely 150. (the way FFXI is at the moment maybe lower)
3. They'd gimp it either via removing haste or weakening your physical attacks.
4. The main thing, Occult Acumen wouldn't work with it.
They need to remove DRK away from Elemental Nukes there is already 3 jobs that can do it. (not on the same level) Giving them unique nukes in their major field would be a good start.
By Chyula 2011-12-13 11:32:16
can go further and add the imbue dmg to ws dmg and we can all stop crying for a critical ws. this will be even better if a mob is weak to certian element, then drk can imbue that elemental dmg.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 11:33:28
Phoenix.Cathaldus said: »the problem is drk can never compete to a blm's nuke, the low tier spell will not help and its not even good to waste time casting spell and slow your tp gain rate. instead of competing for fancy nuke nubmers using my suggest will switch the job away from nuking and make it use the mana pool on a different way, also making the drk job unique on its own.
It would depend on the cost and casting time.
The major issues with your way is:
1. Elemental Enspells is RDM's group, what little they have.
2. *Balance* would lock it at max 200 damage, most likely 150. (the way FFXI is at the moment maybe lower)
3. They'd gimp it either via removing haste or weakening your physical attacks.
4. The main thing, Occult Acumen wouldn't work with it.
They need to remove DRK away from Elemental Nukes there is already 3 jobs that can do it. (not on the same level) Giving them unique nukes in their major field would be a good start.
Blm,Sch,Rdm,Pup.. 4. and Blu if u count breaths.. but i was just pointing out pup. and all of them are superior to drk in dmg and mp pool.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 11:34:31
drk doesn't have to compete with blm for nuking numbers, there's no reason drk needs spells that cost 200-300MP, take 5+ seconds to cast and do 8k+ dmg. drk versions of holy/holy2 that do 800+/1600+ with a fast casting time (1/2 seconds) would get drks to cast, since I think most drks would agree would be worth missing a melee swing.
[+]
By Phoenix.Cathaldus 2011-12-13 11:34:52
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Phoenix.Cathaldus said: »the problem is drk can never compete to a blm's nuke, the low tier spell will not help and its not even good to waste time casting spell and slow your tp gain rate. instead of competing for fancy nuke nubmers using my suggest will switch the job away from nuking and make it use the mana pool on a different way, also making the drk job unique on its own.
It would depend on the cost and casting time.
The major issues with your way is:
1. Elemental Enspells is RDM's group, what little they have.
2. *Balance* would lock it at max 200 damage, most likely 150. (the way FFXI is at the moment maybe lower)
3. They'd gimp it either via removing haste or weakening your physical attacks.
4. The main thing, Occult Acumen wouldn't work with it.
They need to remove DRK away from Elemental Nukes there is already 3 jobs that can do it. (not on the same level) Giving them unique nukes in their major field would be a good start.
Blm,Sch,Rdm,Pup.. 4. and Blu if u count breaths.. but i was just pointing out pup. and all of them are superior to drk in dmg and mp pool.
Yeah, I forgot PUP. Would have included BLU but just really on the Elemental Magic Skill spells.
drk doesn't have to compete with blm for nuking numbers, there's no reason drk needs spells that cost 200-300MP, take 5+ seconds to cast and do 8k+ dmg. drk versions of holy/holy2 that do 800+/1600+ with a fast casting time (1/2 seconds) would get drks to cast, since I think most drks would agree would be worth missing a melee swing.
High cost would actually give use to OA
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-12-13 11:35:09
Samurai can solo skillchains easy.
Dancer can solo skillchains easy.
Blu can solo skillchains easy.
Ukko war can solo a light skillchain massively.
Drg can solo skillchains via Spirit Link.
Nin can dodge skillchains (tenzen fight).
Pup can skillchain with their thing.
Drk can skillchain using /SAM decently.
ftfy
By Chyula 2011-12-13 11:35:38
drk sacrific hp and defense power for attack power, I don't see why we can't sacrific mp and magic defense for added magical power on our swings.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 11:36:02
drk doesn't have to compete with blm for nuking numbers, there's no reason drk needs spells that cost 200-300MP, take 5+ seconds to cast and do 8k+ dmg. drk versions of holy/holy2 that do 800+/1600+ with a fast casting time (1/2 seconds) would get drks to cast, since I think most drks would agree would be worth missing a melee swing.
ya make them 100 and 150 mp or so and make it a minute recast. would be fine. could have a chance at an added effect. bio2/3..blind2/3? or something
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 11:39:28
drk sacrific hp and defense power for attack power, I don't see why we can't sacrific mp and magic defense for added magical power on our swings.
I mean i thought i read when i originally played that drk were masters of weapons like war... well if they are.. and they can use magic.. then they should know how to utilize both of them together. i really dont see why they dont. i mean we get 1 thing like this and thats endark. i would figure they would add new ways to enhance our dmg through magic that effected our melee.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 11:44:19
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »drk doesn't have to compete with blm for nuking numbers, there's no reason drk needs spells that cost 200-300MP, take 5+ seconds to cast and do 8k+ dmg. drk versions of holy/holy2 that do 800+/1600+ with a fast casting time (1/2 seconds) would get drks to cast, since I think most drks would agree would be worth missing a melee swing.
ya make them 100 and 150 mp or so and make it a minute recast. would be fine. could have a chance at an added effect. bio2/3..blind2/3? or something
I don't see bio2/3 or blind2/3 being an added effect as that would take more away from rdm, for added effects maybe plague and terror, low proc rate except vs arcana.
| 12-08-2011 02:50 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep |  |
| I just wanted to warp in here and let you know that we are thinking about lowering the casting time for dark magic. On top of that, we are also looking into DRK's magic usage.
Great ideas so far! Keep the feedback coming. ^_^ |
The "great ideas" include:
Darkness I & II (the opposite of Holy)
Renewing the formulas for Drain I & II
An actual reason to use Entropy
Occ absorb HP spell/ja
Maybe some other suggestions, maybe some of you can think of some~
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