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[Dev] DRK - Magic Usage
By volkom 2011-12-13 15:38:51
Okay let's make this extra super easy.
Do you:
A. Cast Thunder III for 16.7 TP and 120 damage, which takes 6.75 seconds plus a 29 second recast time.
or
B. Swing your Great Sword for 16.7 TP and 320 damage, which takes 4.05 seconds.
Please think before you answer. Please... just think. are you using bale sollerets +1/2?
and is this a scenario in which you don't want to melee straight away?
 Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 15:41:12
Okay let's make this extra super easy.
Do you:
A. Cast Thunder III for 16.7 TP and 120 damage, which takes 6.75 seconds plus a 29 second recast time.
or
B. Swing your Great Sword for 16.7 TP and 320 damage, which takes 4.05 seconds.
Please think before you answer. Please... just think. I'd like to go with
C. equip all my + MP gear and twlight cloak and cast impact just to get rid of all my awsome MP.
no but seriously
 Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 15:42:05
Bale Sollerets +1/+2 only add +10% or +20% more TP, so OA now gives 11% or 12% return. Nice try, but please know what exactly a piece of gear does before you base any silly ideas off it.
Answer the question. A or B. It's not hard. Stop trying to weasel out of a reasonable and realistic situation.
By volkom 2011-12-13 15:45:06
thought OA IV is +10% and having boots raises the base by 15% and that having store tp items also affects it.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 15:47:27
I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post, I agree with you 100%, AO is worthless
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 15:47:47
thought OA IV is +10% and having boots raises the base by 15% and that having store tp items also affects it. +1 is 10% more, +2 is 20% more. This effectively makes the trait 11% or 12%, just to put it in perspective.
Yes, Store TP affects it. I already said the 16.7 TP from Thunder III is with a +31 STP set. This is still assuming you aren't 5-hitting a Scythe instead and need 20 TP for it to be worth considering.
Are we clear yet? Occult Acumen is worthless unless you intentionally gimp yourself into oblivion.
By volkom 2011-12-13 15:50:07
okay so you get the same amount of tp returned as if you were swinging? then it depends on if you want to hit the mob or not depending if its doing some massive aoe that you don't want to be in or something.
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 15:53:53
I guess you missed the sarcasm in my post, I agree with you 100%, AO is worthless Not you. Volkom completely dodged answering a question that anyone who knows which numbers should be bigger and which should be smaller can answer.
Actually your spoof answer C is rather viable if crazy hard to pull off. If you can get 666mp for Impact it's actually a decent way to get 60-100 TP, but you'll have had to sit there in your MP gear for five minutes on Auto Refresh or resting, and you can only really do it once... but this is made completely obsolete by having any Regain piece, atma, Tactician's roll, or spell given that you'll have 300tp from any of those in the same setup time.
okay so you get the same amount of tp returned as if you were swinging? then it depends on if you want to hit the mob or not depending if its doing some massive aoe that you don't want to be in or something. Then why the hell are you on DRK? Switch to BLM or RNG or COR or something. This is FFXI, you aren't limited to being useless in your given situation unless you want to be.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 15:54:54
okay so you get the same amount of tp returned as if you were swinging? then it depends on if you want to hit the mob or not depending if its doing some massive aoe that you don't want to be in or something. Then just run in and hit it and run back out, Casting spells that do damage feed TP also, and now you can save your MP for stunning that huge AoE move that you're worried about.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 15:57:12
Wouldn't with Bale+2 u get 19.26 or something TP from Thunder3?
By volkom 2011-12-13 15:58:25
Ok then by that you're saying as soon as the mob is engaged you want to start swinging right away doing the max potential damage you can and spamming your weaponskill as soon as you hit 100tp. I'm pretty sure there are times you want to not engage it but yet still build tp.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 15:58:35
Actually your spoof answer C is rather viable if crazy hard to pull off. If you can get 666mp for Impact it's actually a decent way to get 60-100 TP, but you'll have had to sit there in your MP gear for five minutes on Auto Refresh or resting, and you can only really do it once... but this is made completely obsolete by having any Regain piece, atma, Tactician's roll, or spell.
even more of a reason for /rdm then you can convert and refresh yourself
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 15:59:31
Ok then by that you're saying as soon as the mob is engaged you want to start swinging right away doing the max potential damage you can and spamming your weaponskill as soon as you hit 100tp. I'm pretty sure there are times you want to not engage it but yet still build tp. isn't that what /sam and absorb-TP are for? (btw neither one of those feeds TP to the mob)
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 15:59:51
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Wouldn't with Bale+2 u get 19.26 or something TP from Thunder3? Doesn't make any difference once you get past 16.7 if you're 6-hitting, but putting Bale +2 on would actually give you 20.0 TP if you were 5-hitting (presuming Ace's Leggings weren't part of your +31 STP).
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
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Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 16:01:19
Ok then by that you're saying as soon as the mob is engaged you want to start swinging right away doing the max potential damage you can and spamming your weaponskill as soon as you hit 100tp. I'm pretty sure there are times you want to not engage it but yet still build tp. isn't that what /sam and absorb-TP are for? This.
Stop digging to find usefulness. It's getting a little ridiculous. We DRKs are long decided and knowing that Occult Acumen is useless, and you're not gonna find some loophole or trick to make it anything otherwise else we'd have thought of it already. A situation where Occult Acumen is useful is theoretically possible but nonexistant due to game mechanics, other methods of gaining TP in downtime, and just switching to a different job if you can't melee.
By volkom 2011-12-13 16:02:52
Ok then by that you're saying as soon as the mob is engaged you want to start swinging right away doing the max potential damage you can and spamming your weaponskill as soon as you hit 100tp. I'm pretty sure there are times you want to not engage it but yet still build tp. isn't that what /sam and absorb-TP are for? read my earlier post. OA is good when meditate and absorb to are down and you don't want to engage
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 16:03:50
Enjoy your placebo trait.
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 16:04:52
Enjoy your placebo trait. /agree
/headdesk
I wash my hands of this
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 16:06:30
with bale+2 feet is there a way to get enough fast cast to get thunder 3 around 4 seconds casting with enough Stp to net it more than 20tp? if so it might have minor (id never spend the time on it) uses...
like when a dragons in the air... or something.
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 16:08:02
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »with bale+2 feet is there a way to get enough fast cast to get thunder 3 around 4 seconds casting with enough Stp to net it more than 20tp? if so it might have minor (id never spend the time on it) uses...
like when a dragons in the air... or something. Except hello 15-30 second recast and 'Why aren't you on BLM since we're sleeping it on the ground phase and Fire resist tanking it?'.
Yes, the situations exist... except you have to be utterly derptarded to put yourself in those situations!
 Fenrir.Dibble
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 141
By Fenrir.Dibble 2011-12-13 16:13:26
If it can apply just for DRKs i.e. a Trait or a JA, then I think that's a pretty awesome idea.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 16:16:47
i know just curious. especially if they enhance drks ele dmg somehow.. could be useful in the future idk.
anyways how do you calculate stp into it? u dont just add 3.1 tp for 31 tp right?
Shiva.Damonz
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Shiva.Damonz 2011-12-13 16:21:35
If it can apply just for DRKs i.e. a Trait or a JA, then I think that's a pretty awesome idea. The only way that would benefit you is if you got 33.4 - 40 TP as a return depending on your X-hit
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 16:35:04
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »anyways how do you calculate stp into it? u dont just add 3.1 tp for 31 tp right? Wiki is your friend.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 16:59:24
so if i read correctly. each 1 stp is +1%? so i can see this getting some use... maybe depending on ur build. im sure maybe a math wiz/sets guy can come up with a set that takes advantage of OA
By volkom 2011-12-13 17:42:46
If it can apply just for DRKs i.e. a Trait or a JA, then I think that's a pretty awesome idea. The only way that would benefit you is if you got 33.4 - 40 TP as a return depending on your X-hit doesn't sound useless if you could do that.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2011-12-13 18:06:03
after some quick thoughts bio2 seems to be the best thing to use with OA
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-13 22:41:27
The only way that would benefit you is if you got 33.4 - 40 TP as a return depending on your X-hit doesn't sound useless if you could do that. Except you can't, because DRK doesn't have a spammable 257mp cost spell (and thats with +2 boots and a regular STP set).
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »after some quick thoughts bio2 seems to be the best thing to use with OA For what, 5.6tp? Still does practically nothing. You're getting the TP of a Dagger with the delay of a Polearm, and yes Bio II still feeds the mob TP (and your LS will GUT you if you cast it on a Wyrm they plan to sleep for ground phase, on top of 'Why the hell are you on DRK?')
You still have to spend 642 MP for 100 TP, 129 MP for 20 TP on a 5-hit, or 108 MP for 16.7 TP on a 6-hit. This is how dumb SE is, because they think 200-300 MP restored from Entropy offsets this.
By volkom 2011-12-13 22:56:01
The only way that would benefit you is if you got 33.4 - 40 TP as a return depending on your X-hit doesn't sound useless if you could do that. Except you can't, because DRK doesn't have a spammable 257mp cost spell (and thats with +2 boots and a regular STP set).
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »after some quick thoughts bio2 seems to be the best thing to use with OA For what, 5.6tp? Still does practically nothing. You're getting the TP of a Dagger with the delay of a Polearm, and yes Bio II still feeds the mob TP (and your LS will GUT you if you cast it on a Wyrm they plan to sleep for ground phase, on top of 'Why the hell are you on DRK?')
You still have to spend 642 MP for 100 TP, 129 MP for 20 TP on a 5-hit, or 108 MP for 16.7 TP on a 6-hit. This is how dumb SE is, because they think 200-300 MP restored from Entropy offsets this.
you sound like a really bitter person. maybe you should go play blm and complain less about drk
サーバ: Fenrir
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Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-12-13 23:01:59
The only remotely interesting application for OA is Voidwatch if your group isn't replenishing your Fanatic's Drink at a good clip. Even there, if you're spamming Bio II for TP your leader is likely to murder you for it. Even holding TP feed negligible, you can't proc with Dia/Bio spells unless the debuff and dot effects actually land so you potentially end up waiting for it to land, slowing down procs. At least Dia II/III are useful overall, in addition to the probably low duration of the latter.
Anywhere else, you should have changed jobs half an hour ago at least.
| 12-08-2011 02:50 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep |  |
| I just wanted to warp in here and let you know that we are thinking about lowering the casting time for dark magic. On top of that, we are also looking into DRK's magic usage.
Great ideas so far! Keep the feedback coming. ^_^ |
The "great ideas" include:
Darkness I & II (the opposite of Holy)
Renewing the formulas for Drain I & II
An actual reason to use Entropy
Occ absorb HP spell/ja
Maybe some other suggestions, maybe some of you can think of some~
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