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Powerful DD ultimate weapons
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2019-03-03 05:30:11
Has people never seen a war MS zerg? I'm not trying to "argue" here ,just curious why is everyone impressed so much?
I clicked on that video and appearantly Ejiin used MS on that WoC. The scoreboard showed 30k ws avg near the end.
So you clicked it but didn't watch a second of it? I explain why the average was so low. Hell, if you watched even 15 seconds of the start of the fight you would have known why the WSAVG was so low. I'm all for debate but at least have the full picture of facts before making a snap judgement and start trashing a build.
Watch the rest and MS Savage averages 70K~ on the rest of the stuff I do. Hell, I even say in the video I still think MS Reso is still better, but if you're already using the Axe build you can't just willy nilly swap to Reso.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 07:42:22
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
By Afania 2019-03-03 08:03:03
Has people never seen a war MS zerg? I'm not trying to "argue" here ,just curious why is everyone impressed so much?
I clicked on that video and appearantly Ejiin used MS on that WoC. The scoreboard showed 30k ws avg near the end.
So you clicked it but didn't watch a second of it? I explain why the average was so low. Hell, if you watched even 15 seconds of the start of the fight you would have known why the WSAVG was so low. I'm all for debate but at least have the full picture of facts before making a snap judgement and start trashing a build.
Watch the rest and MS Savage averages 70K~ on the rest of the stuff I do. Hell, I even say in the video I still think MS Reso is still better, but if you're already using the Axe build you can't just willy nilly swap to Reso.
1) I watched that part, but the reason that you explained wouldn't suddenly double the ws avg or something.
People demand a nerf for kaja axe because it's "OP", I was expecting 2x more dmg than current build if its nerf worthy but it doesn't seem so. That's my point.
2) I didn't "trash" the build. I said "It seems to be on par/slightly behind reso during MS. Not "Kaja axe is garbage please dont get it"
Please don't read every opinion that isn't exaggerating as "trashing" things.
3) Most important of all....you agree that MS reso is better, which is exactly what I said....so why are we arguing again? =.=
By Taint 2019-03-03 08:17:34
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
And let’s not kid ourselves Rag>>Bravura from a DPS perspective.
It’s not even close.
By fonewear 2019-03-03 09:36:25
Please for the good of the FFXIAH community...post random numbers finally proving which REMA weapon is best !
By Shichishito 2019-03-03 11:17:16
Please for the good of the FFXIAH community...post random numbers finally proving which REMA weapon is best !
wow, slow down! can't just begin with imaginary numbers right off the bat, got to start with some boolean expressions first. proper shitposting needs build up.
By ocean 2019-03-03 11:25:02
Has people never seen a war MS zerg? I'm not trying to "argue" here ,just curious why is everyone impressed so much?
I clicked on that video and appearantly Ejiin used MS on that WoC. The scoreboard showed 30k ws avg near the end.
So you clicked it but didn't watch a second of it? I explain why the average was so low. Hell, if you watched even 15 seconds of the start of the fight you would have known why the WSAVG was so low. I'm all for debate but at least have the full picture of facts before making a snap judgement and start trashing a build.
Watch the rest and MS Savage averages 70K~ on the rest of the stuff I do. Hell, I even say in the video I still think MS Reso is still better, but if you're already using the Axe build you can't just willy nilly swap to Reso.
Question: Does your MS gear change based on the WS? Mind sharing, porfavor?
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 12:16:28
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
And let’s not kid ourselves Rag>>Bravura from a DPS perspective.
It’s not even close.
Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 12:29:24
Also a note on the Quest weapons (what I'm calling them cause it's all quest WS's), SE said they were designing them to be ~almost~ as good as the best, so the fact people are seeing them so high shouldn't come as a surprise. Yes SE was a bit unbalanced in handing out the boosts, Spiral Hell gets 100% while Steel Cyclone only gets 30% even though they are very close in power. Evis getting 50% makes it quite interesting while Ground Strike getting 15% is WTF worthy. Same with Retribution vs Black Halo.
Overall these add more variety to the current meta without taking anything away from it. I'm kinda miffed that WAR can't use the dagger or club, but hey we can't get all the toys.
[+]
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 707
By Shiva.Eightball 2019-03-03 12:41:07
Also a note on the Quest weapons (what I'm calling them cause it's all quest WS's), SE said they were designing them to be ~almost~ as good as the best, so the fact people are seeing them so high shouldn't come as a surprise. Yes SE was a bit unbalanced in handing out the boosts, Spiral Hell gets 100% while Steel Cyclone only gets 30% even though they are very close in power. Evis getting 50% makes it quite interesting while Ground Strike getting 15% is WTF worthy. Same with Retribution vs Black Halo.
Overall these add more variety to the current meta without taking anything away from it. I'm kinda miffed that WAR can't use the dagger or club, but hey we can't get all the toys.
SE basically typed /random and said "looks good".
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 12:43:10
Also a note on the Quest weapons (what I'm calling them cause it's all quest WS's), SE said they were designing them to be ~almost~ as good as the best, so the fact people are seeing them so high shouldn't come as a surprise. Yes SE was a bit unbalanced in handing out the boosts, Spiral Hell gets 100% while Steel Cyclone only gets 30% even though they are very close in power. Evis getting 50% makes it quite interesting while Ground Strike getting 15% is WTF worthy. Same with Retribution vs Black Halo.
Overall these add more variety to the current meta without taking anything away from it. I'm kinda miffed that WAR can't use the dagger or club, but hey we can't get all the toys.
SE basically typed /random and said "looks good".
Basically... was weird, really weird some of the numbers they put on them.
By fonewear 2019-03-03 13:23:58
Please for the good of the FFXIAH community...post random numbers finally proving which REMA weapon is best !
wow, slow down! can't just begin with imaginary numbers right off the bat, got to start with some boolean expressions first. proper shitposting needs build up.
I tried crunching the numbers but it turns out I'm a *** idiot that can't do basic math !
All I know is if it glows...it's good.
By Taint 2019-03-03 13:26:15
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
And let’s not kid ourselves Rag>>Bravura from a DPS perspective.
It’s not even close.
Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
Cata 2.85ftp 40str/40int 1.68 r15 71% wsdmg gear
361 str =144
204 int =81
237 dex =23
383 base =631
4.675 pdif (+2 neck)
Meta 2.85ftp 80str 1.68 r15 64% wsdmg gear
322 str =257
210 dex =21
364 base =642
3.95 pdif
Ratri/+2 neck and DRKs bonuses set Cata apart from Meta
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 13:32:29
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
And let’s not kid ourselves Rag>>Bravura from a DPS perspective.
It’s not even close.
Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
Cata 2.85ftp 40str/40int 1.68 r15 71% wsdmg gear
361 str =144
204 int =81
237 dex =23
383 base =631
4.675 pdif (+2 neck)
Meta 2.85ftp 80str 1.68 r15 64% wsdmg gear
322 str =257
210 dex =21
364 base =642
3.95 pdif
Ratri/+2 neck and DRKs bonuses set Cata apart from Meta
Wow didn't know PDL only applied to Cata and not to every single other Physical WS in the entire game. Plus that STR looks kinda low on Bravura as I easily have more then that, but that's besides the point. They both have the same 2.75 fTP single hit and 80% STR is better then 40% STR 40% INT. Both have the same 68% boost from their respective weapons. From a strict damage point of view MT is stronger then Cata. Job comparison on the other hand is a whole different bucket of worms.
:Edit:
Just checked MT set, stats are
STR: 114 +252 +25(Boost-STR) = 366/391 (+312)
DEX: 101 +159 = 260 (+26)
vs 200 VIT target
fSTR = 48 capped
364+312+26+48 = 750 BDMG
Could be a bit higher fTP if I went with a STR belt over Fotia but Fotia is actually worth more.
DRK definitely has a much higher attack cap then everyone else, and this discussion has nothing to do with Job A vs Job B.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 124
By Odin.Archaide 2019-03-03 13:41:15
Don’t forget Liberator > Caladbolg
By Taint 2019-03-03 14:36:55
Kaja is not better then a Reso or Chango build but it's not that far behind either. It's damage curve is pretty flat, no amount of TP overflow will boost it and we can already reach really high MA rates.
War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
And let’s not kid ourselves Rag>>Bravura from a DPS perspective.
It’s not even close.
Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
Cata 2.85ftp 40str/40int 1.68 r15 71% wsdmg gear
361 str =144
204 int =81
237 dex =23
383 base =631
4.675 pdif (+2 neck)
Meta 2.85ftp 80str 1.68 r15 64% wsdmg gear
322 str =257
210 dex =21
364 base =642
3.95 pdif
Ratri/+2 neck and DRKs bonuses set Cata apart from Meta
Wow didn't know PDL only applied to Cata and not to every single other Physical WS in the entire game. Plus that STR looks kinda low on Bravura as I easily have more then that, but that's besides the point. They both have the same 2.75 fTP single hit and 80% STR is better then 40% STR 40% INT. Both have the same 68% boost from their respective weapons. From a strict damage point of view MT is stronger then Cata. Job comparison on the other hand is a whole different bucket of worms.
:Edit:
Just checked MT set, stats are
STR: 114 +252 +25(Boost-STR) = 366/391 (+312)
DEX: 101 +159 = 260 (+26)
vs 200 VIT target
fSTR = 48 capped
364+312+26+48 = 750 BDMG
Could be a bit higher fTP if I went with a STR belt over Fotia but Fotia is actually worth more.
DRK definitely has a much higher attack cap then everyone else, and this discussion has nothing to do with Job A vs Job B.
Did you not read my last sentence? I concluded the difference was job related.
And you gave up 9% wsdmg for that str and dex. (EPA/Kari+1) My sets are near BiS so anything that looks low are from RNG augments.
Asura.Veikur
By Asura.Veikur 2019-03-03 15:04:51
As a heads up, WAR's really high native DA makes the jobs unique aspects, outside of Mighty Strikes and Scarlet Delirium, nearly meaningless. You're gonna be seeing very similar numbers.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 15:45:48
And you gave up 9% wsdmg for that str and dex. (EPA/Kari+1) My sets are near BiS so anything that looks low are from RNG augments.
No I didn't.. mad augments on Odyssean hands. In either case turns out Fotia Neck/Belt better then STR items in those slots. It's the usual 1% WSD = 3~5 STR situation.
Do you said
Ratri/+2 neck and DRKs bonuses set Cata apart from Meta
Which isn't logical as the PDL bonus's apply to all Dark Knight WS's including Torcleaver, Cross Reaper, Entropy and would even apply to Decimation. Unless your saying that PDL only applies to Cata?
Plus that wasn't even a Job A vs Job B argument, I only brought up Cata because it got a very large boost from the R15 upgrades and is the most similar to MT for comparison. Your the one who took it as a job comparison.
By Taint 2019-03-03 15:50:30
As a heads up, WAR's really high native DA makes the jobs unique aspects, outside of Mighty Strikes and Scarlet Delirium, nearly meaningless. You're gonna be seeing very similar numbers.
Cata is extremely consistent due to DRKs WS gear. Metatron relies on that DA to equal an attack capped Cata. WAR is going to WS in gear with a total of 42-47% for a single hit WS.
Metatron is fine at r15 but it’s not messing with Resolution(Rag) which was the initial debate.
By Taint 2019-03-03 15:55:05
And you gave up 9% wsdmg for that str and dex. (EPA/Kari+1) My sets are near BiS so anything that looks low are from RNG augments.
No I didn't.. mad augments on Odyssean hands. In either case turns out Fotia Neck/Belt better then STR items in those slots. It's the usual 1% WSD = 3~5 STR situation.
Do you said
Ratri/+2 neck and DRKs bonuses set Cata apart from Meta
Which isn't logical as the PDL bonus's apply to all Dark Knight WS's including Torcleaver, Cross Reaper, Entropy and would even apply to Decimation. Unless your saying that PDL only applies to Cata?
Plus that wasn't even a Job A vs Job B argument, I only brought up Cata because it got a very large boost from the R15 upgrades and is the most similar to MT for comparison. Your the one who took it as a job comparison.
Oh stop. I literally spelt out my gear sets to compare then compared base damage to PDL to wsdmg to compare sets.
They are very similar. Metas 80str is better as shown. The reason catas hits harder is DRK and DRKs JSE. So after posting set stats, I made that conclusion. No where did i bring up other WSs since only two were being compared.
Silly argument.
By SimonSes 2019-03-03 15:55:55
Conq is ahead of Ukon due to KJ being a good WS and Upheaval being VIT based. Ukon is a good weapon tied to a bad WS. Bravura is utility and a circumstantial weapon.
This is true on first sight and w/o experimenting much.
But I haven't yet seen a good math or sim for Ukonvasara WAR focusing on White Damage during TP phase and Wsing with Uph at 2000TP+
I only did some very simple one and came up with 8800 DPS, but I don't even know what's the WAR DPS right now with most top builds.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 16:05:38
Yes yours is.
Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
The context of the statement
Quote: War
Chango> Ukon> Conqueror> >Bravura> trash> Ragnorok
Do you see Apoc anywhere in the list of weapons being compared?
The only reason Cata was even brought up was that its very similar to MT and is used in a similar utility fashion. DRK's have been commenting on how useful the R15 upgrades were to Cata so I figured that MT would see similar usefulness.
Your the one who twisted that all up into a "Cata is better cause DRK PDL" statement.
By Taint 2019-03-03 16:08:48
Talking in circles kind sir.
Not sure why you got offended by making a side comparison. Agreeding with you, noting that the job is what makes Cata slightly better and providing sets (math).
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9730
By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-03 16:11:07
Metatron is fine at r15 but it’s not messing with Resolution(Rag) which was the initial debate.
No it wasn't....
Quote: Definitely was before and probably still is, haven't had a chance to really look at R15 Bravura MT spam though. MT was a decent WS already with it being 80% STR single hit, think Cata with a better mod. Plus the entire purpose of a Bravura is to be at damage reduction cap while maintaining a really high WS rate.
Rag Reso should beat it but since I haven't done a detailed comparison between them in a long time and stuffs changed I can't rule out the possibility entirely. I commented that in any case Bravura's about utility not pure DPS because if I want pure DPS I'm busting out the R15 Chango.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3189
By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-03-03 17:08:53
I tempted to R15 my Bravura, but when I need to be defensive I resort to Kaja Sword+ Adapa Shield on stuff in a hybrid DD set.
There times I get one shot without a shield on. It's sorta lame.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2019-03-03 17:46:00
if you want to compare cata and metatron, i did add them to my calculator if you want to give me the stats to fill in. just ignore how ugly the UI is
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 241
By Cerberus.Mrkillface 2019-03-03 23:09:57
I could probably use some upgrades in my sets, but here's what I have in metatron set: Code sets.exported={
main="Bravura",
sub="Utu Grip",
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head={ name="Agoge Mask +3", augments={'Enhances "Savagery" effect',}},
body="Pumm. Lorica +3",
hands={ name="Odyssean Gauntlets", augments={'Accuracy+16 Attack+16','Weapon skill damage +5%','STR+9','Attack+14',}},
legs={ name="Odyssean Cuisses", augments={'Accuracy+27','Weapon skill damage +4%','Attack+13',}},
feet="Sulev. Leggings +2",
neck="Fotia Gorget",
waist="Grunfeld Rope",
left_ear="Ishvara Earring",
right_ear="Brutal Earring",
left_ring="Epaminondas's Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
}
By my count that set has
9% DA,
3% QA,
61% WSD
316 STR
228 DEX
My Cata set: Code
sets.exported={
main="Apocalypse",
sub="Utu Grip",
ammo="Knobkierrie",
head="Ratri Sallet",
body="Ignominy Cuirass +3",
hands="Ratri Gadlings",
legs="Ratri Cuisses",
feet="Sulev. Leggings +2",
neck="Abyssal Beads +1",
waist="Fotia Belt",
left_ear="Brutal Earring",
right_ear="Ishvara Earring",
left_ring="Epaminondas's Ring",
right_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
back={ name="Ankou's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
}
By my count that set has
5% DA,
3% QA,
59% WSD
347 STR
233 DEX
207 INT
I may have miscounted and those are obviously not perfect sets, but there's something to go by
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2019-03-03 23:31:10
Mean: 22924.2276
StD: 5605.81610525
Min: 0
Max: 36483
Mean: 25353.0898
StD: 6077.77159881
Min: 0
Max: 43038
i did use +2 beads PDL though, i also added 3 WSD from war gifts and 33 DA from traits, gifts and merits. and drk i added 8% WSD from gifts. didn't include any buffs like boost-str or anything.
[+]
By Spaitin 2019-03-04 05:38:24
Im being serious. Kaja too Op plz nerf
As a owner of CHango r15 and all the fun Great Swords. Kaja axe decimation spam is a decent chunk behind Upheaval and Reso spam at this time. It just is a fun new toy that does almost the same damage. Nerfing Kaja axe will probably just make the average war go back to reso spamming which is more powerful than decimation spam is anyway.
By Spaitin 2019-03-04 05:53:43
Idc idc. War and Drk were far away the best DPS. And they go ahead and drop that broken *** sword and axe. Lul. Nerf!
The only thing more OP than kaja WS spam is chango upheaval/raetic reso spam. They are cool. But they are not better than what war already had.
Is there a thread that discusses or ranks best DD weapons as of now? I am making Tizona but I would like to make a weapon for other DDs and I want to not waste money on a inferior weapon. So if someone can give me advice or send me to a thread that has weapons ranked I would appreciate it.
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