Powerful DD Ultimate Weapons

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Powerful DD ultimate weapons
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By Spaitin 2019-03-05 11:43:35  
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Lili said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
WAR has been able to do this for years now, there is a reason fencer builds are not used as DPS builds.

This.

Savage Blade can spike much higher than Upheaval, the latter is normally in the 25-30k range, the former even without Kaja Sword can easily get to 35-40. But the WS frequency of Great Axe (and TP overflow) is just so much higher, then there's the random SCs you get even when spamming.

Kaja weapons closed the gaps with remas indeed (especially the financial one), but they're still not "free", and we need to keep in mind that the target of these weapons are the more casual people that are stuck spamming ambu on easy/very easy, for which it will still take a month or two to get a single weapon to Kaja, at least. Those users are not represented here on forums at all, but they exist and are the majority.

Anyway, situations where sword + shield is king:
- soloing or duoing with not-so-great buffs, assuming you end up tanking. WS frequency then becomes similar to gaxe thanks to retaliation, but you're sturdier because shield.
- caturae in escha, because Requiescat SB SB SB dead.
- Kin. It's the perfect fight for Fencer WAR and it's hilarious how far behind all the HURRDURRRESOLOL wars end up in the parse.
- fights where you do not want SCs to happen and don't have enough buffs to make Resolution worth it. Few, but they're there.
- fights where you get constantly dispelled and the rest of your PT gives up on rebuffing. Without any buff at all Fencer Savage Blade is still really strong, great axe less so.

That's pretty much it.


Fencer build in low buff has a weakness when compared to GA in low buff. GA has armor break. Which in low buff I am assuming attack isnt capped. So 25% defense down is going to be pretty hard to overcome. I would say fencer build is only really feasible for DPS when partying with a dnc for 10% haste samba. But it sure does spike out huge numbers.

Fencer build doesn't stop war switch weapon to GA, do an armor break then switch back. So armor break is irrelevant imo.
if you consider the tp loss of switching weapons twice irrelevant.... idk what to say to you. GA doesnt have to swtich weapons where the sword would. It isnt free to switch weapons. you lose your TP. and in low buff upheaval >upheaval with the SC will beat out SB>SB pretty heavy. with KJ > up > up usually ending with 70-80k radiance with just trusts.

Losing 200ish TP for 25% def- in low buff situations every 540 sec....sounds totally worth it. You would do more than enough stronger ws within the def- duration to make up 200 tp lose.

You only lose tp once if you equip GA before engage.
which is still a loss and doesnt address the larger issue. SB dont SC much. upheaval with chango will. also the other issue of SB fencer build not have job haste unless /dnc or with a dnc. so you have to spend 350 tp every minute to keep 5% hate up. pretty big issue. In high buff sure you can solve that. but kinda a pain in low buff.
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By Afania 2019-03-05 11:52:25  
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-05 11:54:36  
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?
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By Afania 2019-03-05 11:57:09  
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?

Huh? You are the one who brought up low buffs in the discussions lol.

You are missing my point too. I wasn't trying to claim something lowbuffs takes 9 min to kill. I mentioned 9 min because thats max duration of armor break, so that's how often one would need to switch weapon if they are not using GA.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-05 11:59:32  
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?

Huh? You are the one who brought up low buffs in the discussions lol.

You are missing my point too. I wasn't trying to claim something lowbuffs takes 9 min to kill. I mentioned 9 min because thats max duration of armor break, so that's how often one would need to switch weapon if they are not using GA.

you literally responded to me responding to someone else about low buff fencer build....
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By Afania 2019-03-05 12:01:43  
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?

Huh? You are the one who brought up low buffs in the discussions lol.

You are missing my point too. I wasn't trying to claim something lowbuffs takes 9 min to kill. I mentioned 9 min because thats max duration of armor break, so that's how often one would need to switch weapon if they are not using GA.

you literally responded to me responding to someone else about low buff fencer build....

Ok....But it doesn't matter nor I care who started it. I made a minor comment about fencer build can use armor break too. Don't know why this comment is worth arguing for 2 pages.
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By Lili 2019-03-05 12:02:57  
Spaitin said: »
which is still a loss and doesnt address the larger issue. SB dont SC much. upheaval with chango will. also the other issue of SB fencer build not have job haste unless /dnc or with a dnc. so you have to spend 350 tp every minute to keep 5% hate up. pretty big issue. In high buff sure you can solve that. but kinda a pain in low buff.

None of these issues you've been talking about matters in any of the situations where WAR can prefer Fencer Savage Blade spam over Great Axe. In all situations where they matter, Great Axe is a superior choice anyway, thus it's all a moot point.
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By Spaitin 2019-03-05 12:03:09  
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?

Huh? You are the one who brought up low buffs in the discussions lol.

You are missing my point too. I wasn't trying to claim something lowbuffs takes 9 min to kill. I mentioned 9 min because thats max duration of armor break, so that's how often one would need to switch weapon if they are not using GA.

you literally responded to me responding to someone else about low buff fencer build....

Ok....But it doesn't matter nor I care who started it. I made my point about fencer build can use armor break too. Don't know why this minor point is worth arguing for 2 pages.
... okay...
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By Bahamut.Negan 2019-03-05 12:18:57  
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By fonewear 2019-03-05 13:27:51  
Bahamut.Negan said: »

With 10,000 pillows we can make that bed glow !
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By fonewear 2019-03-05 13:28:39  
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.

What about weapon C did you consider that ?
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By Shichishito 2019-03-05 13:32:36  
fonewear said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.

What about weapon C did you consider that ?

what about weapon K?
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By fonewear 2019-03-05 13:34:58  
I tried to solve for weapon C but I don't know what formula to use...I have no reference point.
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By sefalon 2019-03-05 19:03:55  
I have been grinding ambuscade for gear and have a free weapon voucher. Is there a weapon that stands out above the others at all?
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By Asura.Topace 2019-03-05 19:07:23  
sefalon said: »
I have been grinding ambuscade for gear and have a free weapon voucher. Is there a weapon that stands out above the others at all?
Kaja Axe and Sword> the rest

the lance is pretty good I heard.
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By Asura.Topace 2019-03-05 19:18:13  
And what is with the random *** percentages on the weapons? Why the hell does asuran only get 50% yet decimation gets 130% despite asuran being the worse of the two. Makes no sense. Random number generator ftw I guess.
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2019-03-05 20:02:42  
Spaitin said: »
Afania said: »
I'm not trying to discuss weapon A v.s B nor SC nor subjobs. I'm only pointing out in the discussion of weapon A v.s B, one of them not having armor break doesn't matter that much since it's just 200 tp lose every 9 min.
what are you fighting for 9 minutes in low buff?
Something with low buffs, so it's going to take awhile :p
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-03-05 20:35:49  
Asura.Topace said: »
And what is with the random *** percentages on the weapons? Why the hell does asuran only get 50% yet decimation gets 130% despite asuran being the worse of the two. Makes no sense. Random number generator ftw I guess.

Kaja Axe is 120% not 130, not much of a difference though.

The only thing that makes sense is the weaker weapon categories got a smaller buff then the stronger ones. Sword, being one of the strongest, only had 15%, Great Axe Steel Cyclone gets 30%, Great Sword Ground Strike got a laughable 15% while Scythe Steel Cyclone got 100% and Axe Decimation got 120%. Club's Black Halo was already pretty strong and it just got 50%, though Staff was pretty weak and it still got screwed. Asuran's and Evisceration's 50% are also really strong boosts.
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-03-05 22:42:50  
Shame that even with a 50% boost, Asuran is still pretty pitiful.

Also, the katana is pretty legit.
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By Bismarck.Laurelli 2019-03-05 22:43:48  
sefalon said: »
I have been grinding ambuscade for gear and have a free weapon voucher. Is there a weapon that stands out above the others at all?
If you rdm, bow is nice to have for all that MAcc.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-03-05 23:52:56  
They couldn't risk making h2h weapon skills actually good, so 50% ensures that asuran fists is just as mediocre as the rest.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Commencal 2019-03-06 01:00:53  
I'd sacrifice Decimation's 120% to be swapped with our fellow MNK's pitiful 50%...

Then regret it because it still won't help. :(
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By SimonSes 2019-03-06 01:08:17  
Asuran would need 250% and thats not a joke.
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By fonewear 2019-03-06 08:54:25  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
They couldn't risk making h2h weapon skills actually good, so 50% ensures that asuran fists is just as mediocre as the rest.

If they make it 500% we might have something to talk about...
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By SimonSes 2019-03-06 09:11:43  
On the other hand, that 50% might be good, if they plan to fix Asuran in the future. Much higher modifiers or much higher fTP that transfer to all hits, or some of both.
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By fonewear 2019-03-06 09:15:05  
I'd laugh really hard if the ambu weapon for monk turned out to be better than REMA.

I wouldn't even be mad that I made relic H2H for monk.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-03-06 11:35:50  
SimonSes said: »
On the other hand, that 50% might be good, if they plan to fix Asuran in the future. Much higher modifiers or much higher fTP that transfer to all hits, or some of both.

...and then WAR will just equip them and do MS>AF spam zergs. Nothx, let Asuran (and these h2h) die in obscurity
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2019-03-06 12:20:18  
Time for MNK to be relegated to staff and AoE cleaver lifestyle.
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By SimonSes 2019-03-06 12:39:51  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
On the other hand, that 50% might be good, if they plan to fix Asuran in the future. Much higher modifiers or much higher fTP that transfer to all hits, or some of both.

...and then WAR will just equip them and do MS>AF spam zergs. Nothx, let Asuran (and these h2h) die in obscurity

I never understood why some people was so hyped about WAR and Asuran Fists. Is it some mentality of "omg so many crittical hits!!!!" ?

WAR has no martial arts traits, which means h2h on war is slow af. You are limited to 68.75% haste unless /mnk (~76.5%) or you bring DNC for samba, or both.

Now 8 hits means WAR gets NOTHING out of its main advantage, which is very high native DA and NOTHING out of its best zerg tool outside of SP abilities, which is Warcry with Savagery.

Asuran would need to make like 60-70k damage without MS to be even considered for MS on WAR, which is obviously not the range of damage that is required for this WS to be great on MNK. For MNK it would be great even when it would reach 35k avg. Above 40k it would probably start competing with Veret MNK.
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By Taint 2019-03-06 12:56:25  
Exactly right. WAR can hit 100% DA which is why MS Reso is so strong.
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